Starting bankroll
 

Lets put aside everything I have done in the past....what is a good starting bankroll for online play. I know this might have alot to do with what level of play you would like to play. Lets say you are a teacher and you are teaching a new student (not to far off truth) how much money do you suggest they start at and at what level? limit or no-limit? I was thinking no limit might be bad idea right now so I was thinking $300 in .50/1.00 what do you think?

I figure it a big waste making $50 deposits because really you cant play any level at party poker with that cash and if you take bad swing its gone.

I figure if you just listened the first 90 times you read it, that a 300BigBet Bankroll is decent for any limit.

Of course it doesn't matter how big the bankroll is if the player is a losing player.

ummm
 

that wasnt the question I asked. I asked if you where the teacher what level would you have someone start at? Would you start them at micro-limit no limit tables or would you start them at .50/1.00. I know the correct bankroll needed for each level just want to know where to start.

Yes chip im a losing player that pretty damn obvious thanks for rubbing it in boss. :)

We have through this again? You need to learn simple concepts like variance, money management, discipline, and patience. At this point, I think it's useless for one of us to throw out a dollar value and for you to run with it.

Play for entertainment value, Brian.

it is
 

at this point it is but I would like to get better eventully Lou. I wish I would of came to this forum before I got set in bad habits but unfortantly I didnt and havent been able to break them yet. I do appritiate the honesty from this forum as brutal as it is at times.

Just want to know where to start to improve, I agree i lack some if not all of those qualitys you meantioned. I believe I can get better in time and want to work on it. Its the discipline and variance I lack the most I seem to play very good poker for a little while but when I hit one bad beat I go off the deep end. That is how I lost that 2 grand, played great poker for 3 days then hit a couple bad beats and went crazy and blew it. I think if I can learn to control that then I might be able to become a winning player.

Well, to put it bluntly...

I recall trying to help you in the past. Offering advice to "get better," strategical help on certain hand histories, books you should read, articles, etc ... but over and over it seemed like you never listened.

I'm not going through it again just because you feel like creating a new thread. Go back and search the forum.

If someone wants to come forward and offer their advice (possibly AGAIN) then more power to you ... but I can't anymore.

G'luck.

hey
 

fair enough.....I know you have tried to help me in past and cant really blame you for not wanting to go through it again. I appritiate you replying to the thread though. Thanks for the time Lou and good luck to you also.

try depositing on stars so you can play .10/.20 limit and other low limits because party isnt for $50 BRs.

No problem. Like I said, go back and search. The advice given is still good and will still work.

Yup
 

I find I like to start with 300. At 25/NL. If I start with less it is usually a crap shoot as to variance sucking out on me, and losing it all. I find 300 is a good toe hold and I can build a roll from there.

trying
 

Trying to stay away from those levels becuase I thought that they are as much help as a freeroll would be. 8 people to a flop and any hand will get cracked. Do you really think .10/.20 will make someone better?

Brian
 

You tell him! lol! Actually from the hands I have read you seem to be an ok player. Some bad moves, but overall ok. You fall into the Icarus effect: Trying to rise too fast and getting your wings burned off. Just win a little. Accept the loses. Do not even fucking care or look at your bankroll for the first 3 months. Just play. I bet you do well.

(Now if I could only follow my own advice)

I know you don't like Full Tilt Brian, but they have .05/.10 nl tables ($10). If you're going to play, why not start low?

$10,000.

If you start with $10,000, you can (barely) play $15/30 at Party. These are soft games and there is a LOT of money to be made at this level.

If you are a winning player, of course.

Ya Baby!
 

You giving out loans?

BTW - I have played the 15/30 6-Max and THEY ARE SOFT!

You can say that again. Reminds me of 1/2, only way more aggressive.

Brian you dont realize that your not going to play 2/4 with $50 BR... you have to build it up, if you gotta play 10 NL tables then play them.

If your a good player you will beat those games more times than not.

OK. I'll answer the student question...
I would suggest you deposit $0.
I think you'll make more in the long run that way.
And you won't have to work as much overtime.

That's what I would tell my student.

Limit or NL depends on where your expertise is (i.e math/odds vs aggression/reads) and where your experience comes in.

I personally started playing 1/2 NL on PS with a deposit of only 200 (the max buy in for the table) I now have accumulated much more, but I rarely go past the 2/4 tables...and usually still play 1/2 more often than not. The reason is both because its more comfortable for me and because of the softer play. You can usually go to a table and immediately spot the dead money (IE someone who buys in for 40 bucks, the minimum allowed, a player calling a big bet and not being able to beat 2nd pair with a decent kicker etc).

As a general rule if you look at the table and more than 2 players are above the max buy in, there is a softer table to be found. Am I suggesting you start a bankroll of 200 for a 1/2 NL table?....absolutely not....unless you are confident you will only need a buy in one time and will make money each time (or at least enough times to keep you in the +) this is a horrible idea. Also dont spend money you cant lose. I didn't deposit money on any site, until I was ahead on everything, and could afford to lose it if I did....

For limit a general rule is usually minimum 100 Big Bets....

As for what limit to start at, start wherever you can consistantly win

At any limit, if you are not comfortable calling a standard raise (NL) or calling a capped pot (Limit) with a strong but not monster hand, you are over your head.

I am not saying you are wrong here. But I do the exact opposite.
These guys tend to be the best opportunity to double up quick....
Just keep re-buying to top yourself up if you drift a few bets below the max buy-in. Be somewhat patient but aggressive and they'll pay you off.

Thats another way to think about it. I found that generally these players know what they're doing (unless theyre winning was from one big hand and is only temporary), and if I do get doubled up its when I have a monster over a monster, which only happens once in a while... the other plus though is they also are generally more aggressive which can play into your factor also. And obviously there more money to be won.

Ive had just too many times when I took all of someones $90, in a hand they were just dominated in bc they played horrible....or when they call preflop raises with garbage and fold to a basic continuation bet every time, giving me an extra 8 bucks per hand....thats why I say that.

hmmmm
 

.................... yea right.

hmmm
 

I think $300 for $25 NL is about as high as I want to go. Im in now way ready for $1/$2 NL, NO WAY READY.

I think TP is right here Brian... in order to take swings at that level you prolly need that much.

10,000 = 333 BBs which is plenty for lower levels but if you hit a bad swing at 15/30 with 100 BBs you will quickly lose your BR and/or prolly tilt off the rest from the massive swing in your BR.

ummm
 

oh I know my comment was because there is noooooooooooooooooo way im playing 15/30!!!!

oh I thought you were questioning the BR for the game...

I agree with you tho I wont be touching the 15/30 game since I dont have the BR... Im sure it is a very profitable game tho.

yea
 

yea bankroll is one reason but the other would be the fact that I would get crushed. Im sticking to $25 NL, I did good there last couple days with my $50 but I knew that wasnt enough to handle the swings. Really wanted to just see what I liked more the .50/1.00 limit or the $25 NL. I admit though a couple times I layed down hands that probolly would of won just because only had a $50 bankroll...stupid scared money.

when do you reload??
 

If you are at say a $100 max buy-in NL table - at what point do you reload to top it back off at $100? I usually do when i get to around $80ish or so. I guess maybe in theory i should do it everytime i dip a little off the max buy-in??

personally PokerNovice I do it if I drop to even like $95 or even sooner depending on the table because you want the most money possible on the table incase you hit a monster and put it allin.

Yup!
 

In there is the rub my friend. Aggression is power. It is fear. It is what makes poker. The fearless players can do a whole lot as long as they are willing to risk the consequences. It almost ends up a huge guessing game with the best guessers being the long term winners. It is funny how a little more aggressions changes the complexion of the game totally.

At an aggressive table?
After I go through the blinds.
That's how serious I am about this.
The way I see it, if some jackass with a $300 stack wants to double me up, then I should at least have the decency to let him do so when I have $100 in front of me instead of $94.50 ($100x2= $200) - ($94.50x2=$189) = I lose $11.

That's how I look at it.

In theory, this is correct... I'm too lazy to do it though, and it makes my acounting more difficult (I track my winnings every session, of course). I usualyl reload for even numbers that put me close to the original buy in. If it costs me a few bucks from a double up, so be it. It will probably save me those same few bucks from a second best hand just as often...

It's pretty hard to lose with the nuts.

I'd lose al ot of blinds (meaning I'd be reloading constantly) if I sat around waiting to play until I had the nuts.

Brian,

I just noticed on your blog you have your "starting" and "current" balances. It seems that you restart this every time you bust out and put a another $50-$100 in somewhere.

I would suggest that if you really want to get a picture of how you are doing as a player that you pick a start date and from then on keep a running total (which may be negative) with the intention of attempting to be a winning player instead of just not trying to bust out your $50 in a matter of 2-3 days.

I realize from your posts in the past that you are, IMO, a recreational player in that you seem to want to play .50/1.00 or $10-$25 NL even if that is more than the bankroll that you "currently" have alotted to poker. My opinion is that with that mindset you will almost always lose at some point even if you get up $100's, you will keep playing until you lose it (going up in limits, etc). Then you can take a break and start clean with a new $50. This could be fun for you and if it is go for it.

Not sure if this will help you personally in the long run, but I think you may be fooling yourself by having a positive win on your site when you are really down because of the last 3-4 $50's you lost. I personally would rather know if I was winning and losing overall year to year, rather than playing deposit to deposit, but how you manage your playing is still, ultimately, up to you.

Good luck

great advice, I will start now since the money im using is part of the deposit im doing on the 20th.

check it out now and ive stepped way way down levels im sticking to .05/.10 NL until I get to $600 no matter what.

Or until 9pm tonight, whichever comes first. :p

lol
 

bite me :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

If you have a limited bankroll, the easiest/best way to get it rolling is to bonus whore. Especially with the first deposit bonus for new sites, you should maximize the bonuses that are easily obtainable each and every time and drop away with sites that are harder to clear for lower limits.

Stop lying to yourself and stop lying to us. You can't tell me that once you get to $200 or $300 (if you get there...) that you will stick w/ 5c/10c NL.

... And if you do, that's just stupid.

guess so
 

guess im stupid then because I dont want to move up until I think I have improved and I dont think so yet so Im not moving up.

not sure
 

Im not sure if I have bankroll for this game im not good in figureing that out when it comes to NL but im in the 25nl games have about $150...Is this enough to handle the swings or am I above my head?

I seem to be handleing the swings but I might just be getting lucky and hitting some hands.

Also dipping into .25/.50 which i just have enough for .

I would say you should set a point that you stop and drop back to the $10 NL or .10/.20 (or .05/.10 if that is all there is). Since you are right on the edge of being at the bankroll for these other games it probably should not be much lower than $100. That way if you lose a little you can drop down and build back up. Then when you get to $150 again take another shot at these games.

Grind away

You have 6 $25NL buyins so its not bad.

Im not exactly sure what the # of buyins you need to be bankrolled for each game.

Ok
 

so im at about $153 right now I shall drop back at $125 since that seems about average.

well
 

I got 2 $25NL tables and a .25/.50 open which may seem dumb but I can keep up with them and this way I dont get bored and start playing stupid cards.

Bite me?????? :confused:

gotta move up ladder eventully and as long as I stay in my bankroll and drop down if I lose too much then not really a problem.

Its not like im playing 3/6 or something chip. Now 3 months ago id be at 2/4 with $150.

No, actually you can play .10/.25 or whatever for the rest of your days if you like, there's certainly no one holding a gun to your head.

Well, Aeq said he'd be stupid to not move up, but I disagree with him. I'm in 100% agreement with you. ESPECIALLY for a guy like Brian, who is known to have gambling tendencies (I'll use that word to be nice), I think it would be a great idea for him to never play anything above the microlimits.

We all know that's not going to happen though.