The Move
 

Does anyone employ "the move" on a regular basis?
The move is having a K or A sooted, flop comes four to your flush. You bet the four flush someone calls. You get the flush on the turn. Check it to your opponent, hopefully he bets into you and you reraise all in. It's a great move. If they fold cool on flop cool, if you hit flush cool. If they call and you don't hit flush on turn, slow down. Suggestions?

Sorry. This is NLHE by the way.

I believe this "move" has a name: Check raise :confused:

Maybe I'm not following here, but that's what you're saying, right? Check raising the nuts on the turn?

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but I think I just don't understand. This doesn't really seem like much of a move to me. And it's so obvious what you have when you do it, it's not often you'll get paid off. I think a better move is often to just call the turn and then value bet the river. Maybe by then, he'll have a hand good enough that he can call...

I believe it is a semi-bluff on the flop, followed by a check-raise on the turn....

Both are important plays to know WHEN to use. You have to be "sure" thay will bet on the turn and not re-raise you all in on the flop if they have anything.

Not check raise. For instance, say you have AQ spades. You bet pre flop and you get called by one or two players. Flop comes K 7 4 two spades. You bet it hard. All you have is a flush draw. They call your bet. Turn comes another spade. Then you check, they bet into you. Then you reraise big or all in. They either fold or pay you off. It's a good move, deceptive.

Blibbity Blabbity has it right. It's a semi bluff. But when you hit you check it, instead of continuing the betting process. I find you get paid off more doing this "move".

Well, yes it is check raising the nuts on the turn, but initally you are semi bluffing on the flop. I find this play is profitable because it's hard for them to put you on the nuts when you check raise on the turn. When it's a flush draw.

ONLY against a certain type of player. A tight player WILL NOT bet without a flush in that spot. Against them you need to bet out.

I have seen a lot more of the opposite "move" where you overbet when a big hand becomes possible. Amazing how many times (given, this is in chump change ranks) people call with anything when someone goes all in when the board pairs aces on the river. You can almost hear them through the computer saying "He CAN'T have AA or he would never bet that much! I call with my two pair! :D "

All depends on the type of player you are in the hand with.

I agree. But the beauty of the move is they will foldon the flop when you don't have shit yet. Or they will call your move, and when you do hit it on the turn they are more apt to call your raise because it threw them off. If they fold on the turn then oh well. But I think you give y ourself a good shot at winning some chips in that situation by employing the move.

you think someone is more apt to call a check-raise?

you're making my head hurt

Depends on what they have of course, but for the most part yeah. They will be willing to call when they have an inferior hand alot of times.

Deceptive? Are you serious? I think this is probably the most obvious way to play this hand. If I'm the guy who bet when the third flush car hit the board and you raise me all in, no way am I calling unless I have a full house draw (2 pair or a set) and the right odds to do so.

Yes, the best on the flop is technically a semi-bluff, but that early in the hand, I wouldn't even think of it like that. I think of that more on the turn when there is only one card to come. This bet is just playing aggressively (this is a good thing, of course).

:confused:

You are check raising. This is about the surest sign of a monster hand there is. And you are doing so after the third flush card hits the board. How is it hard for them to put you on the flush, when your betting it literally saying, "I just made my flush!"

considering he thinks this is a revolutionary move... i can safely assume he will be shocked that we think it is obvious

Sorry, but I'm with junYUN here... Yes, a check raise may be more likely to get them to put SOME chips in the pot than if you had lead out (they may have folded), but no way is it more likely to get them to put ALL their chips in the pot.

When you check raise, you are basically saying, "I have a monster and I just tricked you into putting some of your chips in the pot," and most players will fold inferior hands most of the time here. If they are a good enough player to think you are a good enough player to be capable of check raise bluffing all in, they might call, but I fear I am way ahead of myself even entioning that logic in this thread. Most of the time, any non-horrible player is going to fold an inferior hand here... They certainly are not going to be MORE likely to call.

Make way for the move!
 

Is this satire, and I'm just missing the humor?

Put yourself on the opposite end of "the move." Three of the same suit on the board, and your opponent check raises all-in. What the hell do you think he has?

haha i think i missed that line

I wasn't saying it would get the opponent to call your all in raise. It's intitial intent is to make the guy fold on the flop when you don't have anything yet. If he folds there great. If he calls your bet, and you hit your flush, check it in hopes that he will bet into you. (I forgot to mention, I'm talking about A or K high flush draws only) If you lead out on the turn when you make your flush, he will probably fold unless he has a flush as well. If you check you give him the opportunity to bluff at you, or bet a lesser hand su ch as trips or two pair. That part is simply just check raising on the turn when you have the goods. Most of you guys are decent players so I'm sure this isn't really a "move" in your eyes at all. It seems to work well for me on Party though. Laters.

Nahhhh, Never tried it... Does this really work?

another cool move
 

here is another cool move, was wondering if any of you have ever tried it.


say you have AA and the flop comes down AA6 and you check it waiting for your opponents to catch up. Anyone else ever do this? its soooo sneaky.

You are so not allowed to make sarcastic posts like this. I think you have actually POSTED HHs like this in the "How Should I have Played This?" section. Don't make me go find one.

I'll take everyone elses shit but yours Brian. You are a fucking drama queen, bi-polar, schitzofrenic moron. You contribute bullshit 99% of the time and you can't keep your mouth shut here or on the poker tables. I hope I meet you in the first round of the heads up tourney so I can crush your dumb ass.

My point exactly. Plus he's a douche. "I need someone to play this freeroll for me, chipfish or pshabi, oh nevermind I found someone else to play. OK nevermind, chipfish or pshabi again. "I'm going to play in the HU tourney, no I'm not I'm taking a break." In a day or two we'll see "OK I want to play in the HU, I hope there is still room for me TP." That's why I hope to see him in the first round, because I know he is going to want to play again before Aug. 1st.

Easy there.... I love the smack talk part of this post, but the rest is a bit overboard.

Just trying to head things off here before they spin out of control like has happened with other people in the past.

I voted for Pshabi. :)

crush me lol
 

not playing in it but if I was I'm not to worried about you, keep on check-raising. Oh wait no its not check-raising right you have some cool name for it besides that right. You will take my shit and like it my little bitch. Really wish I had the time to play the HU torney so I could watch you get your ass waxed.

Yes I did go overboard. Heat of the moment. He is the last person that should be making those remarks like you said. I remember a hand where you (Brian) called down big bets with a gutshot straight draw to the river, hit your straight to pick up a huge pot. Then you post the HH on here and sincerely asked if people thought you made the right play or not. That's comedy. I'd like to think my post isn't quite as obvious a play as that one was. From the responses I've gotten (from people who know what they are talking about), my "move" pretty much sucks but that's cool. I'm still learning/improving my game. I don't usually start strategy threads in this forum (or any thread for that matter). This being why. Majority of people have to be a smart ass to amuse themselves and others instead of just typing an honest response. If you are a good player do you have to be an ass about questions that are simple for you, but maybe not as simple for others? Remember, you were a beginning player once as well. Did you enjoy people trying to make you look stupid when you had a question? :confused:

look man
 

look, I was making a joke. Nothing personal about you, and the hand you are talking about was like 4 months into the game for me of course I didnt have a clue if it was a good play. Now I know it was terrible play oh well I was new give me a break. Need to learn how to take a joke, people make them about me all the time. I only go off on people when the jokes get personal, I know I have made stupid plays in the past and I have tried to learn from them.

OK. Sorry about getting personal. It's in the past now as far as I'm concerned. I easily forget and like to move on when it comes to shit like this. I hope you and others feel the same.

I still hope I get you in the first round when you decide to play the tourney. :D

K
 

works for me, as for the torney, I really cant make that commitment to play. With Gavin's surgery comming up I have no idea what is gonna happen next 2 weeks and dont want to pull a no-show 1st round and give someone a free win. If you find a site though that does free HU games I would be happy to play, for fun of course.


tell you what has them for free and I will be willing to play any time just let me know.

I do have Bugsys Club downloaded, lets do it. I won't be able to do it until 9pm, when my son Gavin (great name) goes to bed. That's 9pm pacific I believe. I"m in Oregon just moved from Alaska so I dont know the name of the timezone and I don't feel like looking it up.

oh
 

[quote=Gordogg]I do have Bugsys Club downloaded, lets do it. I won't be able to do it until 9pm, when my son Gavin (great name) goes to bed. That's 9pm pacific I believe. I"m in Oregon just moved from Alaska so I dont know the name of the timezone and I don't feel like looking it up.[/QUOTE



just send me private message when ready, I will check back in later tonight. As long as my wife isnt going to be I will be able to play. Most likley we can get it going, looking forward to it. :)

Ok sounds good. NLHE of course. Looking foward to it as well.

I'm so glad everyone was able to kiss and make up, and I love the idea of a *friendly* heads up match to settle your differences. You guys need to start a new thread when it happens so people can rail if they want to.

Gordogg - I hope you don't feel stupid for starting this thread. Of course "new" players aren't going to know everything, and the best way to learn and to improve your game is to talk about it. I honestly believe that. I'd like to see all posters contribute more around here - not just the so called "experts."

As for your move itself.... let me give you a little more food for thought. The way you are talking about playing this hand is pretty standard. It becomes very obvious what you are olding when you check raise on the turn. It's a fine play, of course, but you should consider leading out on the turn now and then too. Since most players slowplay monster hands (like you described), by leading out with a bet, you are actually being deceptive. People will think, "Well, he can't have the flush because he wouldn't have bet it if he did." Even more importantly, something to consider is if your opponent has one high spade (hopefully not higher than yours). If that's the case and you check, he will likely take the free card behind you, and then when no spade comes on the river, he will fold to your bet. But... if you lead out on the turn (not a huge amount), you force him to call the bet because of his draw.

Just some stuff to think about. Now please kick Brian's ass Heads Up, will ya? Vegas has you listed as a favorite, but the line is closer than you might think...

actul advise
 

Id like to offer actull advice on hand.


I personally would of bet out turn when the flush hit, not overbet it but a nice lead bet. Most people would think there is no way you would bet out the nut flush and might try to bluff you out of the pot. Think you can make more money this way because if you re-raise all in he is gonna fold.

Didnt read all of TP post before this one, basicly saying same thing he is just not as good.

In the words of Tony Soprano, "Always with the drama..." I know i saw this on another thread but I've been doing a marathon of the show. Its a classic in my opinion.

im gonna whoop your ass at TP HU tourny

i am so strong

Thanks for your input TP and Brian. I'm actually not a "beginning" player, but I'm not as advanced as alot of people on here seem to be. I've been playing seriously for about a year and a half.

As far as kicking Brian's butt, I will IM him later and see if he is up to playing. If so, I will start a thread so whoever wants to rail can. It's nice to know Vegas has me as the favorite. If anyone wants to bet on Brian let me know and I'll throw the match for a percentage of the winnings. :D

I'll send you back to your trash can Oscar, if we meet in the HU tourney. ;)

I PM'd Brian half an hour ago, no response. Lets do this another day. Peace.

Hey
 

my electicity went off last night about 7:30 pm and just got it back today at about 10 am. Sorry about that, I can play any morning until 3pm or any tuesday or wednesday anytime. Stupid storm.

Now Brian....
Pay the bills first.
Then play poker if you want! :D :p

Is this match going to happen? I have a 20 spot riding on it with another forum member, who will remain nameless. I will also not tell you who I bet on.

But I definitely want to rail this one if it ever happens!

Actually...
 

...although everyone's analysis is correct [it is simply a semi-bluff followed by a check raise giving the strength of your hand away], "the move" is quite effective at lower limits. I can't explain how, or why, etc, but I have used it in the past ... and even at the $1/2 tables, it actually works pretty well.

Obviously, you're not going to stack off a world class player, but if you're a low limit NL grinder, it's a weapon that I've certainly used in my arsenal often.

Thanks for the support Lou, glad to see you are back. I actually used the "move" earlier today and it worked great. $25NLHE on Party. The guy only had about 12 bucks left but he put them in the middle on the turn, trying to bluff me. See, when you bet the flop, then check the turn when the flush comes, it makes it look like you are afraid of the flush and that makes your opponenet think he can represent the flush and make you fold. Plus he thinks since you bet the flop you must have a made hand of some kind, not just a draw. Not world class by any means, but very effective on the fish that swim in the low limit waters of Party Poker.

As for the heads up match with Brian, I'm still interested in playing. I'm available in the afternoons sometime between 11am and 3pm. It all depends on when my son takes his nap, how long he sleeps, etc... It's better for me at 9pm when he is in bed. I'll be available pretty much anytime starting Monday so post here Brian or IM me your availability.

As for the twenty dollar side bet TP, let us know who you bet on after the match is done and who you bet with. I want to laugh in the face of whoever bet on Brian. :D

hmmm
 

pretty sure of yourself arnt you?

today might be bad my wife is going to florida so I got the baby all by myself. Usually this wouldnt be a problem but with all the care Gavin takes not sure. Morning are only time thats good for me, working doubles this tuesday and wednesday, If we can set it up today that would be ok I guess should only take me 10 minutes to beat I mean play you.


Im ready to play..........

Why don't you guys PM each other, agree on a time, and then start a new thread (in Railbird) to let the rest of us know when it's going down.

I always thought "the move" was what I'll be employing on you, TP, when you come up to my great city :D.

Hey now!

agreed
 

I agree with Lou 100%. There is a HUGE difference in playing low NL hold em and high NL hold em. I can not believe some of the hands people call my all-ins with at the 1/2 tables. its like they think 'You will NOT bluff me out of this pot". At the higher tables, it is a completely different story.