Cheating PokerSites ?
 

I am one person who forever hated when people called PS RiverStars, everytime they get a bad beat on the river. I always tell them it happens everywhere, and i still agree it does.
One thing i have Consistently noticed tho is...
everytime Right After i make a cash out on stars, i seem to receive a few days of the worst and toughest beats I've ever seen. It really has been totally ridiculous these last 2 whole days i have been consistently losing, to some Horrible beats, and other bad and tough beats.
I guess i could see how a site would dislike somebody making $ off their site, and instead of blowing it later like most the fish there do, actually cashing it out.
Also, it Could be all me, and maybe i get too confident or something after winning a bunch, but i Really dont think so, just because, for a whole week I'd have a bad beat here and there nothing big, But then, I post 3 of many in one night all of the sudden, and if u look at the bad beats section, u will see i was Very far ahead every hand.

Pretty much I'm just wondering if this happens to anybody else on any site ?
I'm talking only about Poker Stars tho.

Thoughts ?

i noticed the same thing.. but im sure we're just crazy.

You're just crazy.

Without going into the lack of motives and how bad of a business that would be for them (if proff got out - goodbye to multi-million dollar business), let me ask an obvious question:

Do you have any idea how hand it would be to program that sort of thing?

It would requite keeping track of who needs to be punished (the cash out people) the most at a given table. Then, the entire hands would have to be "rigged" so they would invest their money and lose to other hands, and so on and so forth, etc.

Why would they do this? And how much did they have to pay the guy to code all that? And when he tells them he wants $5 million in cash every month or else he's going to spill his guts, are they going to pay, or will they just have him killed?

It's not rigged.

lol okay i know its freakin crazy, and i guess it's just me, But everything i said is SO true, everytime after i cash i go way down hill
i guess ur right tho.

LMAO, RiverStars, that is funny.

A complicated but important read
 

Warning -- contains math and logic

Brilliant.

I agree with TP, HOWEVER, my issue with the sites cheating is that they may very well have people who can see your cards and know what cards are coming next. This would take no programming at all.

I don't find the bad beats all that extrordinary, what I find amazing is that people call with the cards they do to give you those bad beats. I mean if you have AK and the flop is AK7 how does a guy holding 46 call and catch runner, runner straight?

It's the people calling with these horrible hands that I question, I mean how can they have a penny to their name and be making calls like that.

Yes, I know the company line about these people will pay you off, this is where your profit comes from, etc... but honestly how do they call with this stuff?

Was just railing a friend at the $1000 NL party tables and saw a guy call off the last $900+ he had in front of him after TWO people were all-in before him. This was not a tournament, it was cash. He was up against AA and KK, he had AKo and sure enough he caught QJT on the flop for the lions share of the pot. Who the hell could possibly make that call?

People who think it's rigged are funny. :)

Yes, this was a bad call with two players all in in front of him. But AK is not exactly a trash hand, either. He could very well be a new player (who happens to have plenty of "real life" money) and knows enough about poker to be dangerous. ie, "AK is a very good starting hand."

Not everyone plays poker at a high level, or even half decently for that matter. I, for one, am glad. If everyone out there was exactly as good of a player as I am, I would be a long term loser, thanks to the rake. But because I'm above the "average," I'm able to be a long term winner.

This is a good thing.

One more thing to consider about the bad beats you see.... you only see them BECAUSE the other guy won the hand. When he doesn't catch his miracle river card and folds, you don't see his hand. When he calls you down with bottom pair and your hand holds up, you don't see his hand (unless you go look, like I always do, but even then, it's more subtle). Bad beats stand out in our memories because they are throw in our face. EVERY single time someone sucks out on us and takes down a pot, we see their cards. But we don't see the garbage they are losing with. It's a matter of perception.

I don't believe any sites are rigged, however the things on pokerstars get sick sometimes.

I usually play the multitable sit n go's, and all can't count how many times my 10 to 1 favorites get burned. I don't really mind the bad beats as opposed to really poor play.

For instance a guy is all in for barely any chips - this is on the bubble, I"m in the small blind and flat call, the BB raises 4BB on me. I fold, only to have him show K 5 off. They spilt the pot, which I would have won. And I end up busting out on the bubble after the small stacked tripled and doubled up.

And then there's situations where people call 5xBB raises preflop with really ugly hands. Eg. Me 10 10, villian K 6. Flops K 10 3. We end up all in. Turn K. River 3.

The thing that gets me shaking my head the most is when a huge stack decides it's time to double up everyone on the table. They make some of the most insane calls...and you can only hope to pick up a hand in time and finally don't get cold decked for the hand.

Maybe I should start going to the higher buy in tourneys...maybe I will be able to read wth they're doing. =P

For the record Chip, I don't think it's rigged, just that you do see some awful funny things happen.

I agree, for the most part with what TP has to say on the matter. I think the biggest reason you don't have those things go your way is you don't donk off all your chips with bottom pair and a 3 kicker in the first place.

I felt the same way recently as the original poster so I honestly got the entire hand history from a SNG I had just played and finished 2nd and felt like I should have won if it weren't for the bad beats, including the last hand where I had AK against 56 that made a straight. Anyway, I went back through and looked at all the hands I played and I honestly thought I got a TON of tough breaks that game, as it turned out I went to a coin flip as the slight favorite 5 times that game when the chips went in the pot (I was big chip leader most of the way at 5-handed) I lost all 4 of those 5 coin flips and won the only one where I went in as the dog (small stack all-in and I was BB and pot committed).

The way I see it I should have won 3 of those coin flips instead of 1 and should have lost the one I went in behind.

All things considered I remember this game as being FULL of tough beats when in reality it was probably pretty normal, if anything I got the short end of it by a tiny bit, but not nearly as much as I thought.

This is partly a brag HH and it does have somewhat to do with this thread.
I would imagine that this poker_24h guy may join the ranks of
"The Online Poker is Rigged Crew" very shortly.
**** Hand History for Game 2427939563 *****
$2/$4 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, July 26, 16:01:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 32754 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: Vito__ ( $94 )
Seat 4: HBX001 ( $113.50 )
Seat 5: poker_24h ( $46.67 )
Seat 6: GroggYd ( $80 )
Seat 7: Silvashines ( $105.28 )
Seat 8: ChipFish ( $54 )
Seat 1: KingKing8 ( $152 )
Seat 2: hard2read222 ( $93 )
Seat 10: imaknife ( $28 )
Seat 9: kluftov ( $42 )
HBX001 posts small blind [$1].
poker_24h posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ChipFish [ Jh Jd ]
GroggYd raises [$4].
Silvashines folds.
ChipFish raises [$6].
kluftov folds.
imaknife folds.
hard2read222 folds.
Vito__ folds.
HBX001 folds.
poker_24h calls [$4].
GroggYd raises [$4].
ChipFish calls [$2].
poker_24h calls [$2].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, Qc, Js ]
poker_24h bets [$2].
GroggYd raises [$4].
ChipFish calls [$4].
poker_24h raises [$4].
GroggYd calls [$2].
ChipFish calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
poker_24h bets [$4].
GroggYd calls [$4].
>You have options at Table 24372 Table!.
ChipFish raises [$8].
poker_24h raises [$8].
GroggYd calls [$8].
ChipFish raises [$8].
poker_24h calls [$4].
GroggYd calls [$4].
** Dealing River ** [ 3d ]
poker_24h bets [$4].
GroggYd folds.
ChipFish raises [$8].
poker_24h raises [$8].
ChipFish raises [$8].
poker_24h calls [$4].
ChipFish shows [ Jh, Jd ] four of a kind, jacks.
poker_24h doesn't show [ Qh, Qs ] a full house, Queens full of jacks.
ChipFish wins $120 from the main pot with four of a kind, jacks.

And just to add to the "rigged" thread...
I personally think "Live Poker" is rigged.
I witnessed 5 yes, 5 sets of QUADS over a span of 10 hrs at the 5/10 table yesterday.
YIKES!
Guess who started it off?
I hold 6-6 Flop is J-J-4
I being the wonderful idiot that I am decide now is a perfect time to put a move on this asian chick.
so I raise the flop after she bets it.
Turn is a rag she bets I raise she calls.
I guess I had better quit with this stupid move of mine....
River is a six... oh a wonderful six.
She leads out I reraise she reraises. I think oh crap. she has a full house with Jacks over so I call.
She flips over the Jacks.
I pout.

So maybe you shouldn't cash out, but if you need to take a break from PokerStars for a week and play at another site .

It is not possible for you to catch runner-runner str8 with those cards on that board lol.

ummm
 

you mean its not possible for a 5 and a 8 to come out?


4-5-6-7-8

I hete to agree with Brian, but yeah... what he said. 5-3 would do the trick as well.

3-4-5-6-7

I dont believe any site is rigged in itself, but I do wonder if certain players have advantages sometimes. Two Hands which relate to this thread

Playing at the 2/4 NL tables, I noticed a guy pop up out of nowhere (we'll just say Bob) I noticed everytime Bob was playing 3-4 tables and had 1000-2000 dollars on each table (400 max buy in) I had made a note of this.

I also noticed his fairly aggressive style if the flop was shorthanded (generally HU)

Im not sure if this is 100% accurate as I dont remember the exact cards that well, but this is basically how it went down

I had AKs and made a raise, he was the only caller. The flop hit QJ 7. I lead with a continuation bet (slash semi bluff if you want to consider it) and he raised me here, which didn't surprise me. I called the raise, intending on stealing the pot on the turn with a check raise, or maybe get lucky and catch a 10. The turn is a 4. I check, he bets out around 60 bucks, I push my entire stack in, a raise of close to 200. He INSTAcalls with A7. No help for me on the river. You don't have to agree with my aggression here, but on his part an instacall with low pair with 2 paint cards on the board? Seems odd

A few hands later this guy is UTG and raises to 16 with J9o (standard raise) has two callers. Flop is a rainbow 10,A,3. He bets out, one play folds the other player calls. The turn comes a 7. He bets out strong again, the player raises him strong and he calls this strong raise. The river is a 8 and he pushes his stack in and is called.

A player can not continuously be making 600-1600 dollars per table (while playing 3-4 tables) EVERY TIME I see him on, and be playing like this. And his moves were made so fast, it seemed strange. A well known player from the 2/4 tables who is seen almost every day made a comment "Im trying to figure out if he has a scanner" I asked him to elaborate but he didn't say anything else about it.

Needless to say its very strange, and I tend to shy away from tables with this player since.

Figured this would relate to the thread

yea
 

There has got to be a way some people are able to cheat. Not saying the system is involved in it but there has got to be some techie guy out there that has figured out how. Im sure the system tries to stop this but there is always that one guy that can hide well enough.

This is why I tend to like live play also, not taking anything away from online poker its a great thing. Me personally though, I would much rather drive 3 hours to play then to put the money online. I have shown much greater sucess on the felt then on the net.

Hmm, someone has managed to change the look of the cards faceup, I wonder if someone could also make other people's cards appear faceup. :confused:

Either way, I'm making money so I ain't gonna bitch :D.

Oh ya, there has got to be a few players who have figured out the hand randomizer, or at least a way to see others cards.
One time i was playin this guy in a heads up tourny.
Everytime i had crap he was all in, everytime i had a PP, he would fold to small blinds after goin all in 4 straight hands before. He did this entire time and won, i finally decided i had to call with crap and he showed barely better crap, i really think he could see my cards, and everytime he had a bit of an advantge, just went all in.
I e-mailed the hand history to pokerstars and told them how ridiculous it was and how i am 95% sure he is the luckiest man in the world, or can see my cards.
They wrote back saying theres no possible way he can see my cards, but i still have my doubts.

You guys.
You are all so Silly.
Keep it up.
This should be on the comedy hour soon.
Hee hee hee.
Rigged?
Hee hee hee.

Does anyone here seriously think that if someone had figured out the hand randomizer, or had some program that showed everyones hole cards, or heck even worked for the site itself, that they might maybe, just maybe play a higher limit and go after some real cash?

Does anyone think that cheating on the PLO8 .25/50 table is probably not happening?
Does anyone care to rethink their own personal skill and say to themselves:"Hey, The reason I lose at poker is because I SUCK, not because someone can see my cards"? OR "It's a good thing for someone to call me all-in with 4-5 with a board of 6-A-9 when I hold A-A, and it just sucks when they do catch the 7 and the 8 on the turn and river..... But hey If I make this same play 1000 times I will be very rich."?

This is funny....
I'll keep it going.... :p
Grrrrrr..... Some meathead called me to the river with Q-3 and caught his 3 on the river.... WOW EMPIRE POKER MUST be rigged. :rolleyes:




EDIT TO ADD:
Let all the losing players Flame away! :rolleyes:

This site is pretty interesting - gets me to wonder if its real and if people are using it

ummm
 

not talking about the low limit players chip, Im talking about the people playing 2,000 NL that seem to have 5k to 6k at the table everytime I check in on them. Yea of course if someone did know how to do this they wouldnt sit at 25 nl. Im just saying its possible I have never witnessed it myself.

Hee hee hee good one! :D
I particularly like this taken directly from the disclaimer at the bottom of the page

While we try to include accurate information on the site, we're not promising you it's accurate. In fact, we're not promising you anything except fun and entertainment.


Hee hee hee rigged! :p Good one! :rolleyes:

OK, I looked at that out of curiosity simply because if it was possible to do this then the creator would go to his grave with it and not share it with anyone.

This particular guy is not to bright though, plain and simple. He is pretty good at photo editing, I'll give him that. His before and after pictures of Party Poker tables are not bad, except that in photo 1 the action is on seat 6 and seat 1 is waiting to act and they ARE THE ONLY PLAYERS WITH CARDS!!! I his after photo EVERYONE NOW MAGICALLY HAS CARDS.

Damn he is good, he can even expose players hole cards that do not exist!

Dammit.... Common sense is sneaking into this thread.
It's Rigged I tell you It's rigged!!!! The sky is falling... err umm I mean it's rigged!

um
 

common sense just left the thread.

I'm disqualifying this thread from the Longest Thread of the Month contest because it's so stupid.

Well, maybe not (obviously there is interest in discussing this), but I'm seriously considering it.

Some people here are really making themselves look silly though. There is no conspiracy theory. The world isn't out to get you. Online poker is not rigged.

Not to interject too much more common sense into this ridiculous thread, but............. Data about your cards is sent from the poker site to YOUR computer. Unless someone has hacked into YOUR computer (ie, if they have a video camera over your shoulder), they can't see your cards. The game information simply is not sent out to all players on ome sort of a network and then covered up again on your end. Each player is connected to the poker site via an individual client and server connection (not a network with shared data), despite how it feels. It's just not there, so there's nothing to "hack" or "decrypt" or "decode" or whatever! The same goes for what cards are to come. There is simply no way to figure it out from home.

Any anyone who tells you there is is plain silly, or just messing with you, like the guy who runs the site that's been linked to. I have to tell you though, I'm tempted to steal his idea and make a similar site. Peope fall for the Nigerian Bank scam every day (yes, they really do), so they'll fll for this too. Why? Because they want to. People are always looking for an easy way to make a buck. I refer to these people as "suckers."

Anyhoo, with all that said, does cheating occur online? Of course. All the time. But it's in the form of COLLUSION (teams playing together via AIM, telephone, being in the same room, and yes, even simple computer programs (Remote Desktop) that allow one person to play multiple hands at the same time at the same table - it's not that hard). This is the only type of cheating you need to be aware of, and IMO, it's pretty obvious when you see it, and it's still beatable. In fact, I'll gladly challenge any two of you "poker is rigged" boys to try it. The three of us will sit at one table together, and the two of you have my permission to share hole cards with each other via whatever medium you like. We'll play 100 hands or so and see who comes out ahead...................... and who gets their accounts closed after I report your asses for cheating :D

Simple answers to this:

Cheating: Easily done through collusion, happens all the time, but moderately easy for a good player to spot.

Cashout curse: Just silly.

Hand randomizer being cracked: Two words, Planet Poker



The sites have better ones now, but who knows.

In my example the guy was making 2400-6400 every day. What do you consider real cash? all I was saying was it was strange, that a player who made decisions like those was up that much money each time I saw him. Was he just getting lucky at every table?

I don't know what happened there or why, but all I know is after watching him for a period of time, there were several other instances against multiple opponents where his decisions would be so strange. And a well respected player who is generally on the tables every night did make a comment. I also know I wont sit down at a table with this guy... for whatever the reason may be

I wont completely discard the possibility, although Im not saying it is so -- people can hack into the FBI, you think your poker site has a tougher system to get into than that?

And Im making the comment and I am far from a losing player. Im up close to $7,500 this year

bold

"Would you consider "REAL cash" to be found at the 2/4 NL or higher?"

I would consider 2400-6400 dollars a day to be REAL cash, regardless of the limit. If you play 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, you'd be making a minimum of 600,000 dollars a year.

"Does this guy only play when you watch? "

No he plays other times as well, in general the same players play at the same times of day/night, so you see the same faces. I was just saying I noticed his unusually high bankroll at the table, so I just checked some of the others and he had an unusually high amount there too

"A bad player at 2/4 NL???? Say it isn't so. "

There are plenty of them -- there are NOT plenty who are consistantly up that much money though

"I sure hope you're paying taxes on that. I on the other hand have not won a DAMN thing! "

Hmm... good point, I just lost a $7,500 HU game.....back to even I am!

LMAO! I bet that same guy got you too! ;)

Did you guys look at my link in my previous post? I think people should realize that it can happen.

I'm well aware of that, as I am sure so are the poker sites...
Which is why it probably won't happen again.

'cheating software'
 

I was playing in a tourney and this one guy hit a very nice flop. This other guy said "So-and-so must have the software that allows you to know what the flop is". A player said "Really?" then the guy who hit the flop went "Yeah, it really helps a lot". So, i jumped in and started going on about how i heard that at least 1/3 of the community has it now - i have been holding off because i like the sport of playing, but i figure i will have to break down and buy it. So, then the dork starts going on about how he doesnt see the fun in it, why dont sites stop it, why dont other people buy it, etc. Me and the 'guy who had the software' (who i never met before) just started ad-libbing this whole conversation about it. It was really funny. Someone chimmed in and tried to tell the sucker that we were yanking his chain - i said "Dont listen to him - he is just saying that because he probably has the software too and doesnt want you to know about his edge".

Then this one hand was classic. An early position player raised and the 'guy with the software' went all-in and the raiser called. The 'software' guy had pocket 7s and the raiser had Ax. Well, they both missed the flop - but the Ax hand ended up winning. Then someone says "Hey software guy, where was that 7 on the flop when you went all-in on?" and i jumped in and said "See, that is the other thing about the software - people dont know how to utilize it. I am sure software guy put the raiser on A-rag - the software told him that the flop would not have an ace, so he figured this was a pretty good chance to push. The software was right on the flop - but couldnt predict the turn and river. That software is being beta-tested right now....blah-blah-blah"

It was fun - helped pass the time.