Tournament Strategy question.
 

I was wondering what strategy you guys use in the tournaments. I've been playing a lot of 20$ and 30$ buy in tourneys on party and I can usually make it to at least the money. But I can never seem to get enough chips to last longer into the money like to the final table. I usually play really tight, and occasionnaly try to steal some blinds when the blinds are so high. I usually get my stack so low that I have to just start going all in.

Not to be captain obvious or anything, but you need to accumulate chips in a tournament to go far....which means taking calculated risks. Seeing more flops for cheap, in late position, is something I try to do. You cant just sit back and wait for premium hands in these online tournies where the blinds go up every 15 min...you just wont get enough. Try and isolate weak-tight players, be willing to have a little of the worse of it when entering the hand, and play more after the flop.

Conversely, when up against over aggresive players, let them do the betting for you. It is worth it sometimes to let a guy draw at a tiny chance of beating you, with the expectation that they will pay you off huge if they dont. I.E., you have top two or a set, but a flush draw is out there. They bet into you, and while you normally would reraise to protect your hand, just smooth call. You are risking the loss of a small/medium pot, but upping the chance you will win a monster pot. These over aggresive types will keep leading at the pot after the turn even if they dont hit, which is when you can nail em. And if they do happen to hit, just shrug it off and keep on playing.

You want to win the most possible when you do happen to hit a monster...and sometimes you have to take a little risk if you want to break a guy and really build a big stack. In these online tournies the payouts are soo top heavy, one 3rd place finish is the equivilant of 10 or more 12th or so finishes. I guess, to sum it up, you don't always need to protect your strong hands with huge bets and reraises. Sometimes, in order to make the maximum on your big hands, you need to trust the poker gods and let the odds play out by giving an over aggresive maniac a chance to hang himself....instead of just taking the pot at an early stage. Yes, this might lead to a bad beat and some really pissed off moments. But tourneys are about top 3 finishes, and it takes risk to build that many chips......unless you happen to get aces 6 times and they all hold up.

I know some will flame away and call this advice stupid...but if you play like you are always scared you will get drawn out on, then you will never accumulate enough to be a force in a given tourney. The thought process that tournaments are all about survival is good for limping into the money, but not for actually winning...not in these online tournies. The goal is to win, and to win, you gotta take risks....they wont always come out the way you want....but sometimes they do. And that's when you get a monster stack to ride to the final 3 or 4...and hopefully win

I won't tell you exactly how I play, but I'll offer some advice...
(remember, it's free advice so you get what you pay for)

#1. Play very tight in the first 3 levels.
Even if you win a big pot in level one, you may only be winning 3-400 chips.
This is a very insignificant amount of chips in the grand scheme of things.

#2. Tourney play is about survival.
Do not allow your chips to be put at risk unless you want them to be.
Lay down big hands if need be (within reason).

#3. Do not waste chips seeing flops.
If you have 2 suited connectors, and there are 3 or more in the pot, why bother? The only way you will be in a good spot is if you hit a nut straight.
Especially with low connectors.
Your flush is usually no good if you are playing low to mid connectors.
Pairs are useless for you unless you hit trips or 2 pair. (Even then you are at risk).
You will find that for every pot you drag in with your low to mid suited connectors, you will have bled away the same to more in missed flops.

#4. Get a tight table image.
Stronger players will be taking notes, and/or remember how you play at their table. Use this later on. Which leads to:

#5. Be prepared to Switch gears...
Usually after the first hour it is safe to loosen up. (Especially against smaller stacks.)

#6. Don't steal blinds until....
Don't steal worthless blinds...
Why steal blinds at the 25-50 range?
Pro--- You win 75 worth of chips.
Con--- You get sucked into a hand you shouldn't be playing.
The con outweighs the pro in this case. wait until the 50-100 or higher.

#7. Switch gears again.
After playing weak hands and showing down (hopefully winners ;) )
you will immediately lose your tight image.
Before the bubble tighten up again.

#8. Bubble time....
Attack mid-to low stacks with a vengence.
They only see the money now, they just want to cash and will basically post their blinds right into your stack if you ask them nicely.

#9. "A Chip and a Chair"
DO NOT QUIT
If you have chips in front of you, make others earn them from you.

#10. Be aggressive.
Always be aggressive with whatever hand you play.



Hope these help to get you started.
:)

Thanks Jimmy and Fish, I will to imput these strategy in the next tournament I play. I guess I am just playing to on the defensive side and not being to accumalte chips. I will give an update on my progress. Thanks again.

One strategy that seems to work pretty well is the following:

Near the bubble, DO NOT attack the short stack. The short stack is your friend. You'll find that those just above the shortest stack and near the bubble themselves are just waiting for the short stack to bust out. Attack them. They will more easily fold to a blind steal or bluff raise since they'd just assume sit and wait until the short stack busts out.

I like to use the play supertight first three levels strategy, but it seems that once you get into the money there is really no point in trying to working your way up the prizepool....Once I'm in the money it's practically like final table or bust.

You will likely have to win a couple of coin flip hands as well to get to the final table. If you have a decent and someone puts you all in, don't be scared to enter into a race. If you lose, you lose, but at least you took your shot. I also agree though that stealing blinds is almost entirely pointless, and the only time I'll do it is with a border-line hand and normally only if I'm on the button only. Plus, it makes no difference how big the blinds are that you're stealing, because they are only minimum bets at that point.

I disagree about the importance of stealing blinds.

If you can successfully do it, it buys you at least another free orbit around the table. Also, while the blinds are only 1.5 bets, it may get to the point that those 1.5 bets represent a healthy chunk of your stack.

Stealing blinds is an art and if mastered can keep you in the tournament longer and gives you the chance to make your move with premium hands.

This is my 400th :eek: post, where are the balloons and sirens :confused: .

I really don't like stealing blinds except when I am button or sometimes SB just taking the BB bet. Stealing blinds can get you into all sorts of trouble, especially when you try to do it with rags and you get caught by someone who has a good hand. Can cost you a lot of money just to take 1.5 bets in your stack, and those can often cost you the risk of a few bets to try and steal.

Tournament strategy?

Go hard or go home,You have ti be willing to take big risks to win tourneys, you have to push with premium hands and hope someone calls with a worse hand, you have to BLUFF! I've had some tourney success lately and alot of it comes down to pushing with pocket pairs. I had a hand of pct 88 when I guy in early position raises about 6 x BB , at the time I had double the chips on the guy. I reraised him, the flop was 4 Q 9 , He bet out a pot sized bet and I put him all in , he called with AJ I won. You have to get chips and use them to your advantage, I like being the bully, if I bet preflop and got called and completely missed the flop I'm going to put a big bet on the flop 'cause if the guy missed or caught second pair he probably will let it go, if he reraised boom let it go. Controlled aggresion is the name of the game and you've got to take risks if you want to win and no just make the money.

Nothing wrong with getting into the Money! I assume your talking about SNG's? If your problem is when you get down to three people you get tanked maybe you are being too passive. Basically when you get down to three (at least on Empire/Party) it becomes a crap shoot. The blinds are HUGE compared with the money you have, and you have to be aggresive as hell. If I am short stacked I will go all in with any face card, and any pair. If I am chip leader I will also call most all-in's with these cards because you cannot wait and be blinded down. It's all aggression, a little bluff, a little luck, and so be it.

I do pretty well in Sit and Go's I meant tourneys with a bunch of people, I don't mind making the money at all, but I would like to have more chips when I do so have a chance to try to get to the final table. Thanks again everyone for the advice, I'm gonna try to implement these strategies when I play again, hopefully this weekend.

Chutups, I am in the same boat. I usually play tight, hardly ever get knocked out early, and make it down toward the end. Placed 3rd and 4th in multi table tourneys the past few days (albeit small # of entrants). But I also find myself short stacked toward the end. My ability to play the short stack has improved, but I need more chips to win a tourney (and keep from a heart attack). Some of the advise here is good. But like any other situation, there is no substitute for experience. Keep playing and dont alter your game completely. Just make small adjustments here and there.
Hey, I should just take my own advise. lol

I agree with this statement. I must also say that winning your first multi-table tourney is the biggest hump to overcome. I think once you win your first you will start winning more here and there. You gotta try and break the ice and it may take some time.

That is so true LMAO!
I can't count the times I'll be shortstacked to mid-stacked, very late in a tourney and be screaming "NO KING NO KING NO KING!" at the top of my lungs at 4am. Mrs. ChipFish is rarely pleased with this. :(

yea, me too, except it's NO ACE NO ACE, and it's in my head

The problem with only trying to steal from the button is that strong players know the button is a steal position, and will defend their blinds by smooth calling or playing back at you with garbage.

Late in online multitable tournies, Im talking about down to the last 5 or ten percent of people left, the average stack is usually somewhere between 5 to 7 rounds...i.e. small and big blind (plus antes on some sites) together. Stealing blinds is absolutely CRITICAL at this point if you wish to survive and not get blinded away. And not just taking the blinds steals, realizing that someone is trying to steal the blinds and restealing from them is a monster play that usually results in at least 5 rounds of bets.

That's my perferred play, the resteal. Because it accomplishes the task of 2 to 3 blind steals, and has less of a chance of being called to begin with. Also, when i do get a big stack, I'm more willing to smoothcall a raise preflop when I have position. That's because I like playing after the flop though, Im not really advising it for the most part. With position, against a smaller stack who isnt desperate and has chips to play on with, seeing a flop gives you oppourtunities to take the pot away a lot. When faced with a raise after the flop, it's very easy for your opponent to find ways that he is beat and lay down his hand.

And to be clear, I'm not advising doing this a lot, because you wont have too. A couple of these plays with discretion will go along way to buliding your stack and rolling along to the final table, which is the only place you wanna be

Likely? In a MTT, you will definitely need to win your fair share of coin flips. This is exactly the "luck" people talk about.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that the luck factor has to do more with having your dominating hands hold up. I.E. having your QQ hold up to JJ....or your AK stick against AQ.

Personally I try to avoid coinflips at all costs unless I am a short stack and have no choice. But that just goes along with my style of playing more after the flop, and grinding out pots here and there.

3 words, become a fox. Thats how all the good tourney players do it!

If that's you in the picture,... You're already there.
;) :D

It doesn't take luck for pocket queens to beat pocket jacks. How is that luck if queens already have the advantage.

Try to avoid coinflips - I guess - but you can't wait around for premium hands, either.

i mean avoid getting unlucky....a reverse luck factor if you will.

and when i say avoid coinflips it doesnt mean just playing premium hands, it means avoiding situations where all the money goes in preflop on so-so hands.....pertains to playing after the flop and pushing weak tight players off their hands

First hour I barely play any hands out of my blinds. I try not to invest alot of chips in any single hand, esp preflop unless I have aces or kings. Just not enough in the pot to raise preflop and take blinds. After about he 2nd hour on stars, 1.5 hrs on Party I change it up. Hopefully, if I didnt get fked, i have an avg stack. I start rasing many many pots. I will raise with almost any hand I can easily get away from if someone comes over the top. if the blinds are at least like 100-200 I will raise with ANY hand if no1 has entered the pot and I am within 3 seats of the button. I seem to get in he most trouble when I raise with hands like aj, kq, A10 and mid PPs. Then i have crucuial decisions to make whether or not to call. however, if I raise it with 10-4 and some1 comes over the top I can much without thinking twice.

This startegy is especially good if you get a little rush and people call you down. Nothing is better when you make your normal aggresive raise with AA and someone comes over the top on a HUGE re raise thinking your are bluffing.

ummm
 

so your gonna raise with any hand as long as your in late position man your gonna get so trapped by someone that knows what there doing!!! someone is gonna trap you then your gonna hit something think your best then there gonna RAPE you hard!!!!!

i like to see as many hands as possible when the blinds are low so it doesnt cost much but if u hit you can make a bundle, play tight in early three and get tighter as the game progresses until the seats start emptying at the final table.

I think it is good advise to try to see some cheap flops early to gain some chips; and i should take my own advise. I play pretty tight, and I usually do pretty well, but I find myself shortstacked alot. Would love just a few more chips here and there. Of course there are more than one way to skin a cat/win a tourney. You have to play your best game/strategy. The problem (for me at least) is trying to slightly alter my game to do better, even though I have had some success.

Stealing
 

I think stealing blinds is NECESSARY when you get to the final levels. I was 40th place, out of the money in my last tourney and a few stolen blinds put me back up to a workable stack and got me to 25th where I melted down. You need to be smart about it, and try it with hands that are marginal but can hold-up if they flop well. Do not try it with 72o. I will try it alot with Ax in late-mid to late position. I also do not do it every time or else people will just call you all the time.

Tourneys
 

I preface this by saying I am not the greatest tourney player. However I have placed in most of the tourneys I have entered. I have only cracked the top ten twice. Once was in a satelite where I won an entry to a large contest, and the other was a freeroll. I do not enter tourneys all that often so maybe I am pretty good. heh.

I follow the basic rules. I am very tight in the first three levels. It sometimes gets me respect, and if I stay at the same table for a long time this can pay off. This is also my strategy in SNGs. It really is not worth risking much until you get to a place where the blinds count somewhat.

Be careful early on with going all in. I see alot of people do this. Sometimes that one guy who goes all in every time pisses you off. Just wait and trap him later.

In the later stages of the game you have to be more aggresive. If you just sit around you are going to be blinded out, or end up always being 1 blind away from elimination.

Do something to keep focused. One of the hardest thing about these tourneys is to stay focused for 2-3 hours it takes to win. At some point your going to drift and make mistakes. Take a small break or talk to someone or do something to keep yourself focused.

Have fun. These things are a crap shoot. You need to get lucky to win. Playing well improves your odds of getting lucky but you still need those matchups that you win.

three things I do ..
 

Early:

Play ROCK Tight to save ammunition for later.
Use my BB when I can if not ... Premium hands only !
Watch Other Players and HOW they play, u may see some of
them later


Middle:
I loosen starting hand requirements
Check Stack with remaining Tables
Play the Players as per observations earlier

Late : Bet Raise Bet Rraise any A any Paint any Pair

TAKE the MONEY or TAKE the RAIL

4Flusher

Play tight early and just survive. I'm not saying fold every hand but only play premium hands. You obviously want to be winning chips but don't try to do it in high risk situations.

In the middle levels I usually get more aggressive with the main goal being to accumulate as big of a chip stack as possible, steal blinds, take down pots, and don't be afraid to take risks, you're probably going to have to win a few coin flips to win a big tourney, this is the time to do it.

When I get to the later levels and the field starting dwindling down I like to combine both of these strategies. Playing tight and surviving will get you more money as people get knocked out, but playing aggressive and getting more chips is a higher risk and higher reward strategy. At this level the competition is usually pretty good so just play smart and know when to mix it up every know and then.

Found this great off felica Lee's blog, always a good read.

Beginning of the tournament: Notice who is actually playing, and who is sitting out, having signed up, then forgotten about the tournament. Sometimes it is over 50%.

This is where experimentation starts. Most people are playing a little cautiously and trying to figure everyone else out. Take advantage of this and play a little looser. I don’t mean become a maniac, but marginal/speculative hands will have much more value. Additionally, if you miss, since most people are being cautious, they may not necessarily call you down either. Bet those draws, semi-bluff, do all the tricks until you start getting called down. I’ve had tables with other bluffers, who, of course don’t believe anyone else either, and have had to stop this technique right away. I suppose I could be like a lot of the others and play conservatively, folding, folding, and see how the others play first. However, using this “first strike” method, I have been able to build up chips a majority of the time for later. Conversely, this method has been lead to a quick ‘out-the-door’… remember I’m playing freerolls, so for me, nothing invested, nothing lost.

Once the blinds start going up, usually around the 3rd level, it’s time to start tightening the play. Opponents that you have been playing with might get confused with this as well; it’s always a good thing to confuse your competition. They’ve seen you play more hands and now you’re not. You might get more calls from these people. Many freeroll players are completely unaware, however; so don’t expect to throw off too many people.

Now that you’re playing tighter, the newer people (as many are going to be getting bumped out) are watching you play tighter. When you’re in a hand, they’re going to believe you. Yes, once again, these are freerolls and there are going to be a ton of people who don’t believe you, but heck even pay tournaments have those people, so no surprise here. However, most of the time you’ll be able to steal in later positions with weaker values. Just keep in mind who you’re trying it against. As part of the tighter play, I will NOT try to steal from a chip leader, not unless I really have something (e.g. ATo in the cut-off).

If you go for a steal, you must follow this up with a bet on the flop. I’m assuming here that you realize that by “steal” I mean that you were in a last position (button or 1 to 2 from the button) and no one else has come in; therefore, you should be—preferably—HU with the big blind (ok, preferably, you bought the blinds no contest, hehe), at most vs. two others. If you have more than two opponents in the hand with you on a steal attempt and miss the flop, do NOT bet. Hopefully you still have last position and if they check to you, check behind and take the free card. If you raised with a weak ace, get your ace on the flop, bet and get called… proceed with caution! Remember that it takes a better hand to call a raise than to make a bet. Unless you’ve watched your calling opponent turn over very weak hands, you don’t want to be betting a weak ace when it’s entirely possible that you’re beat. Don’t try to “bet” your opponent off his hand. You raised in late position, most people are much more suspicious of a raise from late position.

OK, betting. I stated that you must bet your steal on the button regardless considering that the above conditions were met. Now, say those conditions are met, how do you bet? The same way you always do. This means that if you’re the type of person that, if you have a monster hand, you bet bigger than the rest of the time, it’s time to change! I played some poker with my nephew this past Thanksgiving and he was hilarious… checking when he had nothing, betting just a little with weak hands, all-in when he had a good-great hand. Every time that he bet big, I just folded (to his credit, he started to realize this, but too late, I had most the chips ;). Too many people do this in their normal play. The reverse is also true, going all-in on a draw or when they’re weak. I’ve seen so many people with a premium pair < AA check-raise all-in when an ace hits the flop. What?? Check-raising ties a player to the hand; you’ve gotten them to commit chips, which normally keeps them IN. I much prefer leading out if I’ve raised, see the resulting action and take it from there.

Later play: Towards the end of the tournament I’m normally average to short-stacked. I am rarely the chip lead with my more conservative play. This may not be for most people, but after spending an hour to accumulate chips in the early stages, I don’t want to blow them by still playing loosely and end up spending that time for nothing. During the later stages I try to hang on and get into the money. If I’m short stacked, there’s really nothing else to do but go all-in if I have a good hand. There’s really no other way to protect it. If I have average chips or better, raising is the better play. Example: the other night I had average chips in the middle of the tournament. I’m in UTG (under-the-gun, first to act) with AQs and have been playing tightly. Although a group II hand, I’m not going to throw this away. I thought, heck, I might just steal the blinds with this one (if people saw how tight I was, and here I am raising… unless they have a great hand, they’re not calling). Well, this one guy that hardly ever raised went all-in for more chips than I had, and a short-stack called. Easy muck, even without the short-stack calling. I had observed the all-in player and he had only shoved before with high wired pairs. This time around he had AKo, not exactly the correct play in my thinking, but I was right in knowing that I was beat (interestingly, the short-stack had AQo… no ace, no queen dealt, I would have been out).

Once again, I raised with my AQs so that I could have the luxury to be able to fold should someone go over the top of me. I did raise because you don’t want someone in there with a weak hand out flopping you, or chasing a straight/flush to run you down. This is a tournament; you still want to limit the field. (Another example of bad tournament play: I’m shorter stacked later on and I have JJ on the button… several limpers to me, no raise, so I shove. Caller? Early limper with KK. Flop? Axx. If I had NOT shoved, he would have allowed someone with a weak ace to out flop him. Do NOT slow play, especially in early positions.)

Sklansky: Yes, I often Sklansky my way into the money. This means that I if I’m short-stacked and close to the money, but not in it yet, I will still fold marginal hands like small pairs and weak aces (AT, AJ, sometimes AQ) in early position. Heck, if I’m close enough, I might fold it in last position, even if I’m in position to steal! This is providing I have enough chips to out last the shorter stacks. My first priority is to get in the money. If I’ve gotten this far, I don’t want to blast myself out after spending 2-3 hours getting this close. Now if you’re really short and you are in steal position, you HAVE to go all-in with those marginal hands (first to open) or else you blind yourself out, you’re that short. There’s a time and a place, monkey*!

“First to open” brings up a point I don’t think many realize. You have to be first to open depending on your stack size, opponent’s stack size, etc. If you have a limper or more, that’s more money in the pot for it to get “protected”. If the pot’s big enough, someone might call you down for the value that they’re getting based on the pot size, regardless of how tight you might be and now here you are shoving all-in. Even if you have AA and shoving is the right move since there are a number of people that have limped, one or more people might still call with all the money in the pot from the limping.

Once I’m in the money, I play more aggressively. I’m getting paid, that was my first goal (and the point of the tournament). Now I want to be paid more :-D All-in’s are more frequent for me. I want to get higher in the money, and the only way to do that is to build chips. If I’m already average or above in chips, then I play more cautiously, but as I stated, I normally am not at this stage.

I agree. I think you start fairly loose and as the tourney progresses and the blinds increase, I try to become tighter and more aggressive. I.e. I will only play a pot once in a while, but I want to win every one of them.

Of course all of this goes out the window when it's down to 6 or less players :)

:confused:
:confused:
:confused:


I would take all of this advice and do the exact opposite.

ok. I stopped reading about halfway through, and glanced at the last paragraph, but honestly, if you were to play exactly the opposite of what is written here, you would probably do quite well.