Brians Downfall (i knew it would happen)
 

well yes I knew it, Knew id have a terrible day and get pissed and lose a large portion of my roll. Started the day at $200.00 and played a mixture between $1.00/$2.00 and .50/1.00 and I swear everyone and their mother hit their draws. By the time the smoke cleared I had $15.00 left, as I sat there and wondered wtf happened. I tell you every bad draw that could possibly happened....HAPPENED, 4 board flushes happened AK was getting beat by A2 all sorts of stupid shit happened. Unfortantly It looks like ill be going back down to .10/.20 (which I cant stand) untill I get up to at least $50.00 again. Oh well back to the drawing board.....:(

I hate say I told you so... So I'll just quote myself from a post I made 2 days ago.

"There's something I don't quite get... Why're you in such a rush? If you put such lofty goals (winning 500 in 1.5 weeks at .25/.5), you're likely going to be disapointed, and could burn yourself out by playing so much."

So instead of even doing what you said you'd do, you moved up to .5/1 and 1/2 with a 'nothing' roll? C'mon dude...

You got what you deserved.

:(

Gutzz

hey
 

I moved up with $200.00 roll which is plenty to handle the slopes.....but getting outdrawn in like 12 pots straight will kill it. Thats why I cant stand these lower limits might be better off just depositing 300.00 and go to 3/6 where you can raise and those 3-6 will fold. Or I could just start playing tornies online and sticking to tables at the casinos havent decided what im gonna do yet.

Are you ####in kidding me? 300 isn't enough for 3/6. It's barely enough for 1/2!

A reasonable roll is meant to handle even the nastiest swings. Getting outdrawn 12 straight times isn't meant to bust even the shittiest of rolls.

My hourly SD for 1 table is 19.8 BB (after only 5k hands so maybe this issn't accurate). at 3/6 if your SD was even mildly close to mine, that's a large percentage of your 300 buck roll...

*shakes head*

Gutzz

[edit: Sorry if I sound harsh... I know you're wounded after this nasty day... Just realize that your roll was obviously not large enough for the games you were playing.

ive been taking 300 to 3/6 for 2 years now its plenty and getting outdrawn 12 times can easily kill a 200 bankroll in 1/2. Man how much do you take with you to a 3/6....1k? We would laugh at you at the casino if you told us that.

1 more thing
 

just wondering how much do you buy in for in 3/6, we talked about all this in another thread about 1 month ago but want to hear what your buy in is.

First, I would never take my whole roll to any game. I wouldn't take more than 10 percent of it to any game.

Second, I thought you were talking about online.

Third, you seem to be mixing up stacks with BR. This makes no sense to me.

Cheers,

Gutzz

I would only buyin for 25-50 BB for any game. If it drops a lot but I think I'm playing good, I'll inject a few more. If it drops and I think I'm playing shitty I leave :).

What you buyin for isn't your roll, is it? Looks like we might be talking about 2 completely different things lol!

Cheers,

Gutzz

read
 

read the thread right above yours you just posted wrote it as replying, no im not mixing them up at all. You should never have a downswing of more then $300 in a 3/6 if your just playing 1 table. If you lose $300 before you hit your upslope then you are looking at way to many flops and giveing away bets, simple as that. I buy in a 3/6 for $100.00 I always have and most time I hit my upslope before I go through that .

ok
 

are you saying BB as big blind or big bet because people use that abreviation for both if your buying in 25-50X the big bet in 3/6 thats alot of chips but if its the big blind Its about what I buy in for.

time to go
 

hey I got to go offload this flight ill come back later and check in on what you wrote. I think basicly we are saying the same thing just stating it different. Im not to mad I knew the play was terrible at these low levels and I would have to deal with some terrible beats.

Well I think you're abusing the term bankroll here man.

If you only had 200 bucks on PS, designated this your 'PS bankroll', and vowed never to deposit again even if it drops to whatever it's at now, then that was NOT enough for a 1/2 game.

If you plan on depositing 300 bucks onto PS, call it your 'PS bankroll' to play 3/6, and promise never to deposit again should you lose it, then that is NOT enough for 3/6.

This is what I was trying to say. If what you had was all the money you could 'play' with on PS, then you were taking a large risk moving up with such a shallow roll. Sure it's enough for 1 or 2 or 3 sessions, but the variance could and did eat that roll up ez.

You also shoulda taken into account the swings you'd face with so many loose players and chasers... --- IMHO this is a good thing :).

I presume you've read 'Gambling Theory and other Topics'? Well I haven't *laughs*. But it's in the mail :). lol! I believe the author says in there that the likelyhood of someone busting 300BB bankroll, assuming they can reasonably beat the game, was like 5 percent. (I think I read this in the archives of 2+2... aka: A gold mine). And this's with 300big bets! You're only playing with 100 big bets [edit: or 150 big bets at the 3/6].

Cheers,

Gutzz

Stick to .25/.50
 

Maybe you should stick to .25/.50?

Variance
 

I hate to tell ya, but I think losing $300 at a table of 3/6 over two nights is not that uncommon. Getting sucked out on will do that for ya. That is why I made sure I had 1800 online before I even started playing 3/6. Most nights you will not lose anything near that much, but when you hit a bad patch then your entire 300 could be wiped out.

Word up

hey
 

ive been playing 3/6 for 1 year now never have lost $300 in a sitting and neither have any of the people I go with.

hmmm
 

I see your point and its well taken ok i fucked up I admit it!!!

Everyone has one of those days where nothing seems to go right. It's better to just take a break away from it and find something else to enjoy until you can get the focus back.

All I needed to hear :).

Just like to add that you get way more hands in 1 sitting online than you do in B&M. More hands = more variance.

Cheers,

Gutzz

You're the guy who I offered to take a look at hand histories for right Brian?
You declined help, and said you were just gettting sucked out on...
I hate to break this to you, but the few hands you posted you played were complete money losers in any position. Q-8 or Q-9?????

I buy into live 5/10 games with approx $250 I rarely need it, but that's my standard buy in.

Internet is more, simply to avoid being picked on as a small stack.

I think you are confusing "bankroll" with "buy-in"
No one in their right mind would bring their entire bankroll to a table.
If you lose your bankroll, that means you are broke.
If you lose your buy-in you can always buy more.

You have been playing poker with your entire bankroll (not smart).
And you have found out early what can happen when you do.

Try and have approx 8-10 "buy-ins" as your bankroll...
Do NOT play above your bankroll.... I guarantee you will lose.
You may get lucky for a while... maybe even a couple of days or weeks.
But you will get hit hard with a lesser bankroll....

Take the advice or don't.... It's not my money, Although it could be I suppose ;) But it is good advice. and I wish someone had told me that when I first started.

yea
 

after I actully sat down and thought about what you where saying it made sence to me at work so kinda running around. Ill just drop down to .10/.20 see if I can get back up if not oh well I did it to myself. Thanks for taking time to talk to me.

Coming into this late here, but I would say you might sit at $3/$6 with $300 and that would give you a good size stack. You seem to be saying that is your bankroll, and that (since it is one buyin) is not enough of a bankroll for $3/$6.....or $2/$4, or $1/$2.

I do agree that if you have other money that you can re-deposit if you bust out of that original $300 then you "bankroll" is not $300, it is unlimited (until the divorce, then its 1/2 of unlimited :D ).

If you are trying to run up a set amount through the levels, IMO, you have to leave yourself more than one buyin at a level to keep from busting out with the type of run you describe. By jumping up to $1/$2 too quickly you didn't leave yourself an out to fall back on.

You titled your thread "I knew it would happen" and I think that is right. You knew this would happen if you kept pushing up through the levels. At some point you hit a level that you can't beat OR just get a bad run of cards, and when that happens you need to have enough left to take one step back. You now have to either take 3-4 back (.10/.20) or redeposit.

Just my opinions, take em or not...

Good luck building it back up. :)

no
 

no im not a moron I know the difference between stack and bankroll, I just wasnt thinking about the slope in the long run just at the present time. Looking at my hand histories I dont want or need if you listened to the last couple posts thats not where i fucked up but playing above my roll. I stopped running Q-9 and Q-8 and stuff out of position so I do know that but I do appritiate your offer chip.

I am willing to bet you've got quite a few leaks in your game that need to be plugged up before moving up limits....

I'm not saying this to be mean.... I am saying this to help you out.

If you really think you are a winner, then by all means go for it!
And good luck! (I'll even come cheer you on in a sit-n-go ;) )
If you keep losing and think you are playing strong poker, then maybe you have more to learn.... (Everyone always has something to learn, no shame in that)

Good luck either way.
:cool:

hey
 

tell you what im going to start playing .10/.20 with my $15.00 left and get a good couple hands in playing my best. Then ill mail you my hand histories and let you take a look if you can find any holes which im sure I have, and you can plug them by all means I welcome the advice. Again thanks alot chip and to everyone that had input in this thread :)

Well this's indeed good news. I couldn't understand why you initially turned down chips help/tips/advice. If he offered it to me, I'd cream.

Cheers,

Gutzz

hell yea
 

thats good just as long as you dont cream near me, yea ill take chip's advice happily guess just didnt want to think I was doing anything wrong. The amount of books ive read and charts and graphs ive studied guess I was to proud to accept any advice. BUT im over that now so yes id gladley take it just give me a week or so to log the hands then ill mail them to you. You can mail someone through this site am I correct?

I promise nothing! :D

Gutzz

One book that I'm sure most of you have read, and if not you should, is "Internet Texas Hold'em". The book is good overall, although can be a slow read at times. Anyway, the author talks about this in detail. He is very conservative in regards to bankroll, and when to move up. Although I havent followed the advise to the letter of the law it is still good advise. My amended strategy/advise is this. You of course must buy in for enough at a table at any given time. I posted a thread awhile back asking exactly this, but I knew what my thoughts were. TP, among others, agreed that you should probably buy in for a set amount. I usually buy in for 50 times the big bet (I also posted a thread about BB; is it big bet or big blind?). Anyway, I just moved up to 1/2, and I buy in always for $100. This is standard of course and it doesnt matter as long as you are somewhat in the ballpark. The real major factor is how much of your total bankroll is your buy in stack!! This is crucial. I always, always must have at least 3x my normal buy in in my total bankroll. It is easy to lose a buy in stack in one sitting. I think we all know that now. In my mind, hey you may lose one of your stacks. You can still continue at that level, next day or whatever. If you are getting down to being close to losing the second stack (or middle third of your entire bankroll if you like), then its time to get the F out and move back down a level. I just looked at the book and it suggests that to move up to 3/6 you should have $1800 in your bankroll!! Of course that may be a bit too much, but to never risk going broke?? I think this strategy doesnt make you wait too long to move up, but gives you outs as we all like to say (Mike McD. lol). The point that most people were making was very valid. Take is slow brother!!
GL

You buy into a $1/2 (Limit?) game w/ $100. Your bankroll is usually 3xbuyin, so 3x$100=$300.

Wow. $300 to play $1/2? Amazing.

You say: "It's easy to lose a buyin stack at one sitting."

Look. If you lose $100 playing $1/2 at one sitting, quit poker.

lou is back
 

how come is it lou that everyone has something constructive to say then you come in with your like 1-3 liner insults. Im starting to think jackass man might be onto something when he posts about you, I respect you as a poker player but your attitude needs some major adjustment. But hey we are talking to the great and powerful Lou who would never lose a whole stack in a sitting right?

In this (bankroll, BB/hour, etc) context BB is a Big Bet. At a $1/$2 table the Big Bet is $2.

300x BB (Big Bet) in a $1/$2 game = $600 (or 6 buyins). That seems to be standard. Again, this is highly dependent on whether you have more money somewhere if you run out.

I would not say it is EASY to loose a buyin at $1/$2 but it is possible. Depends on the site (quality of players, table selection possibilities, etc). I don't think waiting till you are down half your bankroll is a good idea. Before you are out that first $100 you should have a pretty good idea if you are being outplayed, just getting bad cards, or both. I would not suggest buying in again without looking over your hand histories and trying to figure out what you did wrong. You would likely be playing scared not wanting to repeat the loss and even the next day, I would think it hard to play your best game having lost 1/3 your bankroll the day before.

What the F*** are you talking about?
 

Retard.

I wasn't even replying to you. I was talking about someone else's buyin requirement for a $1/2 LHE game. $100 is excessive. By those requirements, he buys into a $2/4 game w/ $200. What? If you bought into a $2/4 game w/ $200 at the casino, you would be laughed at.

If you're an overly-aggressive player, then you'll need alot of ammo. But you're not that player. Shit, you don't raise pre-flop!

And I will CONTINUE to support the notion that if you lose $100 at a $1/2 game, you REALLY need to reevaluate what the hell you're doing so wrong. I fully understand downswings, but c'mon: 50BB in one sitting... at LIMIT? LOL. Sometimes you just gotta tell yourself, "Take up chess."

The reason I didn't reply to this thread is because you seem surprised you lost. "Oh i lost all my money i dont understand it (i knew it would happen) these players suck, they hit all their draws."

Yet...again, you don't like to pre-flop raise. What do you expect to happen when you play the wrong way?

I also find it funny that you want to deposit - what was it - $300? And play $2/4 or $3/6. Good luck, buddy. Can't wait for those bad beat stories.

And finally, don't get snippy w/ me. I've eased up a bit on pointing out the stupidity of your posts. You still can't spell, use correct grammar, or understand anything about sentence structure. Maybe you should be a poker dealer.

im done
 

im done on here you have completley ruined this forum for me and im sure thats why alot of people dont come around here anymore also. You played with me for 30 minutes you have no idea how I play, I actully raise alot pre-flop and I really could care less what you think because I would never take advice from someone like you. But hey you win buddie ill find another forum where the people are nicer, everyone on here is cool as hell except for you but all it takes is one to ruin a forum and I guess your that one here. Have fun dont see you being around here to long anyway moron. bye.

Noooo, if you leave then you'll make baby jesus cry :(.

You can't leave now, man. There's so much more poker to talk about.

Cheers,

Gutzz

PS. That post by Lou was pretty harsh. It stung me!

hey
 

I just e-mailed TP regarding it if there is some way I can block his posts then ill be happy to stay since I enjoy talking to you all. BTW ive made 3 dollars in a .05/.10 game yippie hehehe, its a start im trying to apply everything you all talked about raising in position and all. Im actully suprised it works in this low level but ive chased some people out of pots they would of won. Thanks again guys for all the help, the fact of the matter is even though Lou conciders me a fish I dont, true im not winning player online but im getting better every time I play and I see improvment in my play. Just like Chip says there are holes to be filled in my game, maybe a little and maybe alot. Lou making people feel like shit because they make a play mistake isnt helping them improve at all and a forum in my eyes is supposed to be here to help you.

Brian,

In your UserCP on the left side there is a link that says "Manage Buddy/Ignore Lists". You can click on that and enter peoples names and their posts will be blocked when you read a thread. You can still see that they posted, just not the post. It does get a little wierd when someone replies to them, and you're like WTF are they talking about, but at least you don't have to read posts you don't want to.

As far as what's happening with you, here's what I think. Please note I don't know you, have never seen you play or anything. I'm just going on what I've read here because some of it is similar to what I went through/am going through.

It sounds to me like you're extremely results-driven. In addition, it sounds like you're looking to get rich quick. This is a problem that I REALLY struggle with. It's hard to see all of these people with multiple thousands of dollars in their bankroll, and you've got $100. It's just natural to want to get up to their level as quickly as possible. I have to fight myself daily to not try a higher level than my bankroll can handle, just because I think today is my day and I'm going to make a killing. It doesn't happen that way.

Some of the best advice I've been given involves thinking in terms of big bets/100 hands. Winning a $2.50 pot at $.50/$1.00 doesn't really excite me too much. But that's 1.5 big bets in one hand. Looking at it that way makes it seem much more significant. It's hard to do, but once that part of it sinks in, at least for me, I've noticed that poker is much more gratifying.

Again, I don't know much about you or your play. It just looks like your situation is alot like mine up until VERY recently.

We've heard this before.

Let's see what brought this up.

1. You complain to others how you lost.
2. People give you comments, you go back and forth with some people...
3. I comment on someone else's buyin for a $1/2 game.
4. I guess you think, at this point, I'm making fun of you?
5. You get cocky w/ me.
6. I come right back at you.
7. "You're done."
8. No wait - you're not.

I have no problems leaving you alone... and I WAS leaving you alone for the last week. Don't be an asshole to me and then expect me to take it. I will reply, and it will be more harsh than you expect.

G'luck w/ the block feature.

LOL.

thanks for the comments and letting me know about the block feature, it will solve alot of problems. Totally agree with you, thanks again.

Amount of play
 

Brian, it may seem a little hypocritical of me to say as I’m posting so often, and especially heading into this weekend, but is it possible you are playing (gasp) too much poker? How many hours are you logging a day? How many days a week are you playing? Especially with online poker, which is always just a few clicks away, I (we?) have to be careful. It’s important to go for a run, go see a movie, walk the dog, whatever, and not think about anything gambling-related for large portions of every day …

hey
 

I play about 6 hours m-f my weekends are spent playing with my kids, I do play alot I agree, it will be cut down next month when I start working 3 doubles a week. Want to get better at this so I do log alot of hands 6 hours at 3-4 tables

I'm waaaaaaay late on getting into this thread, but I will comment on a few things I read along the way (each of these could be it's own discussion):

1. Stack and bankroll are not the same thing. We should all try to be more xlear which one we are talking about. If your bankroll is $300, you should NOT be playing $3/$6. $1/$2 would probably be ok, but any pro will tell you that you should be playing $.50/$1. (300 BBs). As for your stack, sit with whatever you like. I always chose the default, but to each their own.

2. It is very possible to lose 50 BBs in one session (especialy if you are multi-tabling), an that doesn't mean you are an idiot or should quit poker. Aeq thinks he has all the answers, but he doesn't. Which brings us to #3...

3. Don't let Lou's attitude problem ruin this forum for you (Thank you rchamberlin for posting the instructions on how to block someone). Just ignore him, and enjoy the constructive criticism and feedback offered by literally everyone else who has posted in this thread.

Hang in there, Brian. Talk with ChipFish. Find and plug those leaks... and don't get over your head with regard to your bankroll.

yes im very very happy with 99.0% of the help ive recieved from this thread and glad I started it and since then ive started to see improvement in my play. Not alot because its only been a day of course but just a tiny bit, yes I plan on taking all the help from chipfish that I can and im very grateful that he offered. I wont let Lou kill this forum for me because besides him this is best forum ive ever been involved in. Ive said it before but ill say it again thanks everyone for wiseing me up to how I was screwing up and chipfish Ill have those hands by tommorrow im mult-tableing 4x .05/.10 so should have couple hundred by tommorrow.

hey
 

chip I got those hands ready whenever you are just need your email to forward them to you?

Exactly the points I made. I was saying you should have at least that much. Pros say you should have more. Mattew Hilger who wrote that book, states you should have about $500 to be at .50/1, and $800 to be at 1/2. Again this may be very conservative but, this will basically eliminate the risk of losing your entire bankroll to a terrible downswing at the outset of moving up a level. I waited until I could consolidate $400 until I moved up to 1/2. I think you should have at least 3 stacks (or buy-ins), in your total bankroll, before you move up. As you say, TP this may not even be enough for SD, but I think it is realistic seeing how much we all want to move up as quickly as possible. And the point of buying into a 1/2 game as 'amazing', and you would be laughed at in a casino for this, is just stupid. This is absolutely standard, so Aeq, you lost me here. Little too much booze Thursday night? What would you buy into a 1/2 game for? $7 because you could never possibly lose like all the bad players out there. Cmon now Aeq., get a grip.

hey
 

hey sent the hands thanks alot chip :)

Just glanced through them.... haven't really looked at them and already noticed some things. I will PM you on the weekend, and you can take another look and see if you agree with me.

:)

If Brian is cool with it, I think you should post some of them here - at least the more obvious things you are noticing. Then we can all learn from it.

Again, only if Brian is cool with this.