Poker Cheating

[GTDawg]

"To me, "cheating" means doing something so outside the normal parameters of the game that it alters the fundamental integrity of the game. Better phrased, cheating implies underhanded tactics. I guess by that definition, performance enhancing drugs are cheating (but then cortisone shots are cheating, too)."

Now...the only thing...

"I am also 100% certain that observing and interpreting visible signals, even through the use of videotape does not compromise game integrity and thus is not cheating"

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There are rules set in place that do not allow the taping of opposing teams. It's clearly stated in NFL rules on what is allowed to be photographed/video taped. The actions of the Patriots clearly broke those rules and were far and beyond the normal parameters set in place and break the fundamental integrity of the game. You are contradicting yourself in discussing how I am contradicting myself.

Surely you remember the Dolphins having game footage of Tom Brady with audio and the "cheating scandal" that went along with that. It was just audio of the game. I'm sure some broadcasts have half of that stuff on TV as long as they have those giant coned microphones and that cool camera that hangs above the offensive huddle. I doubt you can make a case that this was cheating and what the Patriots did was not cheating.

As for the baseball thing, I'm not really sure how invasive it is and, in most ways, it is self-policed. I have never once heard a conversation that involved the signs of an opposing team and what they may or may not be. And, I've never seen/heard of an opposing team being accused of such things. Now, I have seen discussions of opposing pitchers tipping off their signs and there are a dozen or so pitchers in the majors that I can predict what they are going to throw while watching the game on TV.

But the act of stealing signs...at what point are we going to tell the mean people to stop looking while I'm telling Ricky Henderson to steal? I do not associate looking at the third base coach with video taping a defensive coordinator and then analyzing the video tape at half time.

Cortizone shots are an interesting topic. They do not increase performance above and beyond what would be there if the player was healthy. However, they do allow players to play at points when they would not naturally be able to play. I am not really sure how I feel about the use of those shots. Part of me thinks that it is ok since they don't gain an unnatural competitive advantage since they are just going to be playing at the level previous (even that is a stretch). But, it does allow players the ability to participate well past what naturally would've occurred. It's definitely a gray line draw directally to the use of HGH to recover from severe injuries.

However, the use of anabolic steroids and HGH does, in most cases, allow the player to play at an ability above and beyond some natural ability that he used to have.

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Also, in a game with umpires and referrees, where you can't really call penalties on the opponents yourself and are instead forced to rely on the judgement of others...then you really are only cheating if the judge determines that you are cheating.

If a player cheats in the forest and noone is around to be a referree and blow his whistle, is he still cheating?

[Kurn]

I asked those two questions above because when the story 1st broke, Belichick made a statement (which he never repeated) that he felt what the Pats had done was not a violation of the commissioner's memo. I initially took that to mean they were taping for archive and not for use in that game.

Legalistic hair-splitting? Maybe.

One other thing, and I have not heard any mention of anything like this on the radio up here, but I would not be surprised if, after the Pro Bowl, the Patriots mount a legal challenge to the penalty exacted on them by the league.