BlackJack @ PartyPoker

[PShabi]

Even if you "know it," you're still GUARANTEED to be a loser in the long term.

[eejit101]

Have to disagree, with the surrender button the casino is giving a lot fo advantage back to the player. The way that you "push" if its a tie aswell helps the player. If i add it together with the way i play the game, basically standing on anything over 14, and occasionally twelve if i feel its right, i reckon by my stats on here i am 50/50 on average.

What advantage is the house getting (apart from card fixing if possibe). We push on a split, we can surrender half our bet if were fucked, they are giving the player every possible advantage, if they know how to play the game it can be beaten, or at least broke even on on the long run)

[rookette22]

Well the way I see it is like this...with online BlackJack; seems that it's fixed for the dealer to win. With casino in real life BlackJack....it's the ppl playing at the same table as you that make or break you. I've even seen fights break, (the very few times I've been at the casino); for someone thinking they made a bad call on a hand.

[MAYHEM45]

This thread makes my brain bleed.

Its math people. Eejit, you are wrong.

[eejit101]

You just said its math. Then saying i am wrong? No offense but all i explained about was the math of it! The dges the house normally has are lost by pushes and surrenders e.t.c.

I tell you what, if i am wrong then tell me why i dont lose evry much? I play it alot and win alot. And over the course of my life i am not down of this game? And i havent played like 100 hands. i mean well over 10,000.

[2Tone]

Though I'll occasionally sit at a table if I'm in Vegas on a gambling binge.

I've done some reading, and my understanding, though I could be wrong, is …

- Even if played absolutely perfectly under the best conditions, the house retains a (very) small edge. The exception to this is if you can successfully maintain a card count, which is difficult to do and easy to detect.

- That the other players at the table can't/don't influence your results, though many people seem to (mistakenly and/or superstitiously) think otherwise. If you think about it, this makes sense. There are a set number of face cards in the desk, and they are in a random order after a shuffle – by hitting or staying in front of you, it's not like another player can somehow change that.

Finally, there was a great LA Times article awhile back about the Party founder/owner, who has allegedly has a history of rigging blackjack (, article no longer available). I wouldn't play online at all, and especially not at Party.

[Zybomb]

I 100% disagree with this. The other players CAN and DO effect your performance at the blackjack table. Before I sit down in a casino BJ table, I will always observe for 5 minutes and look at the players...

6 players at the table

10 9
8 7
J K
8 Q
4 8
5 9

Dealer shows a 6

players 1-4 stay. Player five takes a hit and receives a K thus busting
Player 6 shakes his head and stays as well

The dealer flips over J 6 for sixteen, then hits with a 4 beating the entire table except for player 3 which is a push

Player 5 took the dealers bust card by hitting at a time when they shouldn't have, thus effected MY MONEY

It can work the other way around, when a player does NOT hit when they are supposed to

[SirFWALGMan]

So if you lose 1% over time and you have fun is it really -EV? heh. I do NOT play BJ online but I find it fun to sit down and play some hands at a casino. I know I am going to lose but so what. It's just money. It is a fun game. It can be exciting when your on a roll. I say Fun = +EV.

[SirFWALGMan]

But then is it a good move when the card is a 4, and the next card is the ten? I suppose if everyone at the table took a hit it might effect the outcome somewhat by removing more good-bad cards from the deck, but the probability that the guy taking a card is going to effect the hand one way or the other seem to be just superstitious. Like the old guy blackjack dealers always winning, and the young kid ones being beatable.

[rookette22]

ZYYYYYYY?


I can't believe it zy........







You ..............










actually...........agreed...........with me???

That's a first!

I've actually seen it happen way too many times, that's why I mentioned it. And you gave the 'purrfect' example zy. Me0owww....

[Talking Poker]

Dude. You're a smart guy. Please tell me you didn't just post this.

Yes, in the short run, players can make "bad plays" that negatively affect YOU, but that are EQUALLY likely to make the same exact bad play and SAVE you. I know you know this.

In other words, using your example, say Player 5 hits and gets a 5. Player 6 stays. Now the dealer flips over J6 and instead of making 21 like they would have, they pull a King and bust and everyone wins. That "bad play" just made everyone at the table money, but no one ever thanks that guy for it - they only get mad when he hurts them.

Not only that, but the entie deck is now throw off one card (the extra card that he took), so the entire next hand is completely different than it would have been, so thinking about "bad player" making "bad plays" in the long term is completely pointless - because everything would be different.

The point is, the cards are shuffled, and the odds of the next card being whatever (a good or bad card for the dealer, for example) are exactly the same.

If you want to play the "would have" game, that's fine - but you have to do it for both the times when the bad play costs you money AND the times when it makes you money. And those will of course even out, so it's pointless to even consider them.

The cards in a Black Jack shoe are randomly distributed. Playing with good or bad players do not affect your win rate. And by "win rate," I of course mean "lose rate," since you will lose in the long run. Period.

[nflchad]

Variance in BJ is exponentially greater than in poker, 10k hands is nothing, roughly the equivalent of 1k hands of poker (in other words the stat is almost entirely invalid). If you think that you can play with an edge then why would any casino allow you to play? If you could play with an edge without card counting then everyone would play proffesional blackjack, the fact that this isn't true should prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your wrong.

[eejit101]

i didnt say i played with an edge, if i did i am very sorry, as this is not true. What i am saying is that with the advantages the house gives you, as well as personaly skill in the game, well not skill, but learning a system, you can win. I reckon im a 51% dog to the 49% advantage against the house. But this is only 1%, and a player can get lucky.

[MAYHEM45]

Let me guess, you use the martingale system?

[Reel Deal]

LMAO!

[X-Longshot-X]

Bottom line. Why would the casino (or in this case the pokerroom) offer it if they were not getting some sort of advantage on it....

[Talking Poker]

Thank you.

As for the others who think there is such a thing as a beatable casino game (without cheating), I'm sorry, but I'm laughing at you.

Not only that, but I would be glad to deal BJ to you all day long, every day.

[Windbreaker]

Online BJ with bonuses is +EV, if you get the right game, learn the basic strategy, and quit after clearing the bonuses. Having said that....probably half the people here wouldn't have the discipline to do all three...lol

[MathBabe]

I know I'm only adding my voice to a bunch of others, and it won't convince anybody that isn't already convinced.

But the ONLY casino game where the house doesn't have an edge is poker. With poker the rake is how the house makes money, and you can see it coming out of the hand and how much they make. With ALL OTHER GAMES, including Blackjack, the house wins more money than the players do, and that is how they make their money.

You may do better than the other players at your table consistently, but DO NOT make the mistake of thinking you are beating the house. YOU ARE NOT.

MathBabe

[Talking Poker]

And this is precisely why I don't consider poker to be a "casino game," wven though it can be played in a casino. With poker, the house is basically charging you for the right to play there... but you are not competing with the house (like in all the "casino games") - your competition is in fact the other players. If you are better than them, you can win (in the long run). But it's impossible to be better than the house in any casino game, obviously (at least it should be obvious).

[Boobie Lover]

Actually, there are some video poker machines that are slightly beatable, but most people play them so poorly that the casinos still have them.

[MathBabe]

Yes, you're absolutely right, I shouldn't have referred to it that way.

Poker is more like a game where the casino rents out the table and the use of the dealer, cards, and chips. Like you say, it's under their roof, but not one of their games.

So what's this thread doing under General POKER Discussion, anyway?