Step challenge at Party Poker

[omahilo]

lmao! dont be so hard on yourself... let us know when you succeed to the next step... I want to see how this ends up.

[Defendant]

Ok as for the math, here goes:

STEP 1: 11+1

places 1-4: get step 2 = 55$. So top 20% get 220$ evenly distributed
Compare to 10+1 2 table SnG: top 4 spots get 200$, divided between 1, 2, 3, 4 at different rates.

Discrepancy Step vs Cash: 1st: 55$ vs 80$
2nd: 55$ vs 60$
3rd: 55$ vs 40$
4th: 55$ vs 20$

========> Since for finishing 3rd and 4th you get a good bit extra money vs the cash SnG, its a good deal for most "consistent" performers, as getting into the money is a reasonable proposition, winning at that point is a crapshoot a lot of times.

STEP 2:
Now heres where it gets interesting:

1-4: 215$
5-6: 55$
7: 30$

Compare to 50+5 cash SnG:

1st: 215$ vs 500$ (ouch)
2nd: 215$ vs 300$
3rd: 215$ vs 200$ (ah here we go)
4th: 215$ vs 100$
5th: 55$ vs nothing
6th: 55$ vs nothing
7th: 30$ vs nothing

Again, unless you plan on coughing up 55$ for a cash SNG and plan on finishing first or second, this provides a lot better deal. The problem, however, is a nasty 285$ cut from first (youch).

Etc for the next few steps, except you have to suck out REAL early not to get anything beyond step 2.

Pretty much the same math applies across the board here: A consistent player wont necessarily win every SnG he enters, but more often than not will finish in the top half of the field. As such, these tournaments provide a great opportunity as they dont differentiate too much between the exact places, whereas SnGs, you take a 20% payout difference just between first and second (which at the normal blind structures, is quite the nasty crapshoot a lot of times).

It does seem like buying into step 2 is a very acceptable proposition here though.

Defendant

[Talking Poker]

I like your breakdown, but you didn't follo wit all the way through, and you are forgetting (failing to mention) one very significant factor:

You aren't allowed to "cash out" when you win. You have to keep on playing. Sure, a decent player will get to play for a while, and may move quit far up the ladder, but only 4 players are actually able to cash out. Yes, they get to cash out quite a bit of money, but everyone else goes home with nothing (Exception: the three people earlier on the chart who won $30 and $35).

So, let's look at the loser side of this, just for kicks... and we'll assume everyone starts at the $11 level (they won't, but we'll just talk in terms of an $11 entry fee)...

Ok, I started typing this all up, but it's freaking complicated With the players looping back to various steps, it's really hard to figure out how many people need to lose before starting a final table.

I guess the easiest way to think about it (although not exact) is that there is $20,000 in the prize pool. With a $10 entry fee to get things started, it's going to take 2000 players to fund that final table (this is not counting Party's cut along the way). And only 4 players win.

[eddo31]

i believe that this is basically the same structure that foxwoods used for their ACT I, II and III satellites for the WPT event there. it seems to give a lot of play, especially because you get to repeat levels if you do well enough.

i havent done the math behind it, but i would assume that party makes out like bandits in this situation. is there really any motivation for them to add this unless they can make a significant profit margin from it?

[Defendant]

Big time, eddo. Online poker is HIGHLY competitive, and anything to make your site stand out above the rest is a good thing, even if you only make marginal profit off of it. Something like this is more a customer draw thing than a cashcow IMO.

Defendant

[eddo31]

i just am not sure that party needs to try and out-promote the other players in online poker. they are the microsoft here, and they only need to change when enough people really get pissed about their policies and fees. yes, there is other competition for the online poker players to go to, but no one else is really even close to party for game selection, number of players, etc. stars may have the better tourneys, but as a whole party just blows everyone else away.

i am sure that they dont really approach their business this way, as it is usually good to grow your customer base, but i dont think their motives necessarily have to be geared towards giving the customers a better deal. if they wanted to do that, the only way for most online players to even notice the difference would be to offer a huge deposit bonus. i dont think that most casual players are using pokertracker to calculate their rake, and that is what this type of tourney would affect. people will be intrigued with the idea of winning 9k off of a $12 buyin, and that is enough incentive for most players without there being a reduction in effective rake.

[Talking Poker]

It's all about the money. Party still doesn't even have decent (or even accurate!) stats. It drives me crazy.

Just look at all the numbers on the ladder after the "+" - Yeah, I think they are going to do just fine with this...

[Penguinfan]

Marketing genius's they are, no doubt about that. Sure they are taking more than the standard rake here, but nobody notices, or nobody cares.


TP, it's $11+1 so 1819 start any given set of steps and 4 people actually cash out, when you look at it like that it seems horrible, huh?
But I can't help myself.

[PShabi]

Gonna have to give this a try tonight. Should be fun. I'll let you know how I made out?

Penguin,

Are the players playing differently in these types of tourneys?

Oh, and by the way. Yeah, it would suck to finish fifth in the final step but how can you complain at a chance to win that much money with a $12 buyin and only 20 people to beat?

When I make it to Step 5, I'll probably have some mad butterflies! Can't wait.

[Penguinfan]

No, the play of the game seems the same, though you have to adjust for the extra players and the fact that you will be playing 5 or 6 handed for a while, something that I find a bit tougher, especially since you go from 5 handed back to 10 handed when the tables combine. Also when you get to the final table (so to speak) you will be playing a regular 10 player SNG but with blinds at the level they have increased to and varying amount of chips, seems you better have at least doubled up at your first table to really have any use of decent strategy. You don't want to be in a situation where you have to double up and still have 8 opponents. If your a good SNG player and can adjust to these minor/major changes you may hit the jackpot.

I was a bit upset with myself in the second game I played yesterday because I was the chip leader with 6 players left and busted out 6th. Kept getting the short stacks pushing in when I was in the blind and it didn't cost me that much to call and I always had decent hand AQs, JJ, AKo, etc... and they kept catching with A/rag. In a game like this when there is only 20K in chips total it hurts to lose 700 or 800 even if your the leader and thats just what happened to me. If I would have won one of those hands where I was a racing favorite I think I would have been OK, but as it is I will be at level 1 in a few minutes.