awesome post by ZJ

[Zybomb]

Im about to read the ZJ article now, so I may have more to comment, but before I do, the bolded part of your post....you realize that is the most important thing in the world in the game of poker, as that is something that can not be taught nor memorized (well I guess except the aggressive poker part). It's called natural.

Edit: Read --- excellent post, makes me wanna buy this book he refered to also lol

[JDMcNugent7]

Yes i do agree, in a way - but there is also a completely mathematical and logical way to poker that I admit I am very bad at (I mean I seem to just have an understanding overall of when its ok to call, when the price is to high, but i never have a set # in my head like im sure you and Kurn do, and many others). I also have been relying soley on these aspects to make me money. I am realizing how much I suck at other aspects, and if I can learn to successfully combine the two I will become a Much better player.

Also, the mindless playing that i tend to do, just playing the same everyday in something i know is a winning way - will never ever work in the High stakes games - and I am confident I would get absolutely destroyed there. This is why I think I am actually just mediocore at poker. All I do is beat the system for a expected win rate day in and day out.

[Zybomb]

Beats a 9-5 or working for 'the man'

[Kurn]

JD, your last point goes back to my rant against measuring pros by how well they might do in "the big game." Who cares? Why would you ever sit in that game, even with an adequate bankroll, when you could easily beat 80/160 limit for 1 BB/hr? In the latter case, you could play 30 hours per week, make a quarter of a million dollars per year and have virtually zero risk of ruin since you'd be way over-bankrolled for the stakes.

[Talking Poker]

Why? Pride. They want to play with and beat the best.

And $160 per hour isn't worth their time. Not even close. But I understand your point - just use $200/400+ as an example instead.

[melioris]

The Kurn/TP side topic is turning into an interesting topic. It gets to core reason of why you play JD. If you play to make a tidy profit on the side while you are pursing a career in something else, then it really shouldn't be hard to make school your priority, as that is what is required to get a 'normal' career. But if you are seriously considering poker as a career, I think you should take a year leave from school and give it a try.

Yes, the social aspects of college are very important. But unless you go to class and do the best work you can, then you are just overpaying for a summer camp. Fucking up and getting thrown out of college because you failed classes is bad, but I think it is for more damaging, and a lot more common, for bright, intelligent students to grow accustomed to doing the minimal to get by. This embrace of mediocrity is the curse of modern America, and our best and brightest are learning it in college. Don't fall victim to it.

Decide what is important to you and demand excellence from yourself those areas. If you are unwilling to do what it takes to achieve excellence in an area of your life that is important, then have enough courage to realize you were fooling yourself when you decided that the area was important.

So if you are fucking up in college, figure out if it is because you really would rather be playing poker and learning how to be a great poker player, or is it because you have only been in college for a month and shit, it is a crazy fun adjustment but you lost sight of why you are the in the first place. But whatever you decide, think it through and go for it. Don’t allow yourself to be mediocre.

Oh, and hurry up and post those pictures you talked about in the other thread. I got to be the best dirty old man I can

[Zybomb]

I disagree with the majority of this post.

First of lemme start by saying I think college is overrated, particularly if you don't know what you want to do. Coming out of college with a Liberal Arts education does little if anything for your job search, other than you 'have a degree', which for some reason looks good to some employeers (despite the fact that the job has nothing to do with anything taught in a classroom required to get that degree)

On the other hand, as far as out of classroom experiences during college, you learn a shitload, you develop as a person, and you become who you are. I know that if I went somewhere besides Ohio State for example, I wouldnt be the same person I am today. I would have had different friends (maybe a different type of crowd also), met different people, had different experiences, developed differently and thus I would have been a different person than I am today. I wouldn't trade my college experience (particularly my 2nd year ) for the world

Also it's always nice to have a plan B to fall back on.... even if you decide to give the pro poker play thing a try for a while, what if it works for 6 years and then all of a sudden something fails... you just gunna head right back to school? No way.

You're still a kid, have fun and stay young as long as you can... when you're done with school, you can see where life takes you

(- Sorry, this is getting off topic)

[JDMcNugent7]

This is a really good quote and I've been thinking alot about it.

The quote rings entirely true for me - I have already fallen victim to it, 4 years ago actually. My ACT scores prove im very bright and that is how I got my scholarship and the way i get by in classes - excelling on tests I barely study for. But the work i do in school, and effort i put into it looks like just another average student, if not below average. Ever since I found out how easy it was to be average and slide by, I've done it. I mean I love my life and I like having fun much more than doing schoolwork. I personally dont even think grades are all that important, but I realize I have completely embraced mediocrity for years now, and I want that to change.

[PShabi]

I've known EXACTLY what I wanted to with my life since before high school and I'm very thankful for that. Helped me focus and persevere when most people would've sunk like the Titanic.

[melioris]

This is exactly what I did in high school and most of college. It really wasn't until my second year of grad school that I got disgusted with myself and the huge opportunities I had wasted by doing the just enough to get by, or to satisfy others expectations of me. It wasn't all roses once I got my shit together, but after a few years of holding myself to my own standards, my research went places that I never would have been able to achieve if I had just skated by or done enough just to satisfy what was expected of me.

I am not trying to be a pretentious asshole, I just feel like I was really fortunate to get a lot of opportunities throughout my life. And I wasted most of them, which I am quite regretful about. I am regretful not because of how things turned out but because I wasted a lot of opportunities that were never offered to other students, and maybe if given the opportunity other students would have capitalized when I didn't.

[Kurn]

Thus, there's more than just making money to the decision, which again counters the "poker's-not-gambling" crowd. The guys who play the big game absolutely are gamblers, and while I believe its all gambling, settling into a comfortable win rate while being over-bankrolled is indeed taking a lot of the gamble out of it.

This is where poker is better than professional sports. You can actually make a good living even if you're not in the majors, yet you can still play the game rather than be a coach.

[JDMcNugent7]

I think I can get alot out of college, I just need to take it more seriously. It's just hard to get motivated when some of the classes they put me in are so ridiculously stupid, like art appreciation - I don't appreciate art and i dont want to, its the boringest class I could ever think of and the teacher acts like all of our lives are centered around art, when we have no clue what the fuck she is talking about.

Next semester I get to pick my classes more and hopefully they will be more interesting.

In the mean time. I need to be happy with a good, steady profit from poker and try to minimize the amount of "gambling" im doing by staying at stakes i can pretty easily beat rather than challenge myself too much. I just want to build my bankroll more, but focus on school first. And by focus on school i mean start doing homework and doing well- no way will i take school overboard - i have never come close to that in my life.

[melioris]

So yeah, I also am sorry that this is off topic, but I think it is kind of relevant to JD so I will reply.

I don’t think that college is overrated, particularly in the cases when someone doesn’t know what they want to do. But if you are not going to take advantage of the resources when you are there, then I agree that it is overrated. But JD’s situation is somewhat unique. Certainly I had no idea what to do with my life when I was in college, but I didn’t have anything else so I stuck with it and figured something out. Also, if the typical BA in some liberal arts degree doesn’t little or nothing for your job search, I fail to see how it is a viable plan B.

I agree wholehearted with you about the ‘out of classroom’ experiences. It is these that shape you and mold you as an adult. But since you can not predict what these experiences will be at specific institutions and how they will change you, they are, in effect, random. And who is to say what other unpredictable random future events were denied by your choice to attend one school over another. Or even over not going to college and learning a trade. These things are unknowable.

I wasn’t trying to suggest that JD should get old soon and not live life to the fullest with my sanctimonious rant. He is a young and should enjoy himself to the fullest. I only was trying to suggest that, in his somewhat unique situation, he consider his options as clearly as possible

[jillaj]

The worst part of college was how boring my gen ed classes were. As soon as I took classes the pertained to my major the classes were interesting and easier to attend. Picking a degree you can actually make money with is also wise since it is what makes the world go round.