An amazing 10 minutes...

Reel Deal · #1 09-21-05, 02:01 PM

Check out the starting hands here and the time stamp on these hands... this all happened in 10 minutes!

PokerStars Game #2627070605: Tournament #12672404, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/21 - 12:13:34 (ET)
Table '12672404 47' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Ace3700 (670 in chips)
Seat 2: Skrewed (1340 in chips)
Seat 3: windmill78 (1290 in chips)
Seat 4: rer4dad (3460 in chips)
Seat 5: El Carib (280 in chips)
Seat 6: mrbluto (1430 in chips)
Seat 7: mateooo (1590 in chips)
Seat 8: ReelDeal-Jax (3000 in chips)
Seat 9: Dr_N0 (1750 in chips)
mrbluto: posts small blind 10
mateooo: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ReelDeal-Jax [Ac As]
ReelDeal-Jax: raises 100 to 120
Dr_N0: folds
Ace3700: raises 550 to 670 and is all-in
Skrewed: folds
windmill78: folds
rer4dad: folds
El Carib: folds
mrbluto: folds
mateooo: folds
ReelDeal-Jax: calls 550
*** FLOP *** [6h Ts 7s]
*** TURN *** [6h Ts 7s] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [6h Ts 7s 3d] [4d]

*** SHOW DOWN ***
ReelDeal-Jax: shows [Ac As] (a pair of Aces)
Ace3700: shows [4s 4c] (three of a kind, Fours)
Ace3700 collected 1370 from pot
mateooo said, "nh"
ReelDeal-Jax said, "

"
El Carib said, "wow"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1370 | Rake 0
Board [6h Ts 7s 3d 4d]
Seat 1: Ace3700 showed [4s 4c] and won (1370) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 2: Skrewed folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: windmill78 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rer4dad folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: El Carib (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mrbluto (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: mateooo (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: ReelDeal-Jax showed [Ac As] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 9: Dr_N0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

-------------------

PokerStars Game #2627099918: Tournament #12672404, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/09/21 - 12:21:10 (ET)
Table '12672404 47' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Ace3700 (2815 in chips)
Seat 2: King C69 (1135 in chips)
Seat 3: windmill78 (1175 in chips)
Seat 4: rer4dad (3305 in chips)
Seat 5: El Carib (540 in chips)
Seat 6: mrbluto (1375 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: mateooo (1285 in chips)
Seat 8: ReelDeal-Jax (3005 in chips)
Seat 9: Dr_N0 (1340 in chips)
mateooo: posts small blind 15
ReelDeal-Jax: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ReelDeal-Jax [Ah Ac]
Dr_N0: folds
Ace3700: folds
King C69: folds
windmill78: calls 30
rer4dad: folds
El Carib: calls 30
mrbluto: folds
mateooo: calls 15
ReelDeal-Jax: raises 120 to 150
windmill78: calls 120
El Carib: folds
mateooo: folds
*** FLOP *** [Jc Kh 8d]
ReelDeal-Jax: bets 200
windmill78: folds
ReelDeal-Jax collected 360 from pot
ReelDeal-Jax: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 360 | Rake 0
Board [Jc Kh 8d]
Seat 1: Ace3700 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: King C69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: windmill78 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: rer4dad folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: El Carib folded before Flop
Seat 6: mrbluto (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mateooo (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: ReelDeal-Jax (big blind) collected (360)
Seat 9: Dr_N0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

------------------

PokerStars Game #2627103952: Tournament #12672404, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/09/21 - 12:22:11 (ET)
Table '12672404 47' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Ace3700 (2815 in chips)
Seat 2: King C69 (1135 in chips)
Seat 3: windmill78 (1025 in chips)
Seat 4: rer4dad (3305 in chips)
Seat 5: El Carib (510 in chips)
Seat 6: mrbluto (1375 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: mateooo (1255 in chips)
Seat 8: ReelDeal-Jax (3215 in chips)
Seat 9: Dr_N0 (1340 in chips)
ReelDeal-Jax: posts small blind 15
Dr_N0: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ReelDeal-Jax [As Ah]
Ace3700: folds
King C69: folds
windmill78: folds
rer4dad: folds
El Carib: folds
mrbluto: folds
mateooo: calls 30
ReelDeal-Jax: raises 370 to 400
Dr_N0: folds
mateooo: folds
ReelDeal-Jax collected 90 from pot
ReelDeal-Jax: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 90 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Ace3700 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: King C69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: windmill78 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rer4dad folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: El Carib folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mrbluto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mateooo (button) folded before Flop
Seat 8: ReelDeal-Jax (small blind) collected (90)
Seat 9: Dr_N0 (big blind) folded before Flop

----------------------

PokerStars Game #2627110877: Tournament #12672404, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/09/21 - 12:23:57 (ET)
Table '12672404 47' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Ace3700 (2755 in chips)
Seat 2: King C69 (1225 in chips)
Seat 3: windmill78 (1040 in chips)
Seat 4: rer4dad (3305 in chips)
Seat 5: El Carib (510 in chips)
Seat 6: mrbluto (1375 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: mateooo (1225 in chips)
Seat 8: ReelDeal-Jax (3275 in chips)
Seat 9: Dr_N0 (1265 in chips)
King C69: posts small blind 15
windmill78: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ReelDeal-Jax [Kd Kh]
rer4dad: folds
El Carib: folds
mrbluto: folds
mateooo: folds
mrbluto has returned
ReelDeal-Jax: raises 170 to 200
Dr_N0: folds
Ace3700: folds
King C69: folds
windmill78: folds
ReelDeal-Jax collected 75 from pot
ReelDeal-Jax: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 75 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Ace3700 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: King C69 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: windmill78 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: rer4dad folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: El Carib folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mrbluto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mateooo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ReelDeal-Jax collected (75)
Seat 9: Dr_N0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

eejit101 · #2 09-21-05, 02:16 PM

Ok, firstly WTF, give me those hands!!!!

Secondly i cant believe you are in a net loss situation after them.

Thirdly your raising too much with the AA, bet triple the BB for a call, not 10x the BB, they will all fold!

Reel Deal · #3 09-21-05, 02:26 PM

Yeah, I know some of those raises were a bit much, but I had a reason... want to guess what it was?

Zybomb · #4 09-21-05, 02:48 PM

While 10x is a bit crazy, early on in the a tournament, the standard raise is closer to 5xBB than it is to 3. This also has to be adjusted sometimes. If 3x is doing it then great why risk more. If you are getting 8 callers on your 5x BB its time to jump it up. I was playing a tournament last night where bliinds started at 100/100 and 15,000 chips. The average opening raise was 700-1000. If you opened for 400-500 there'd be 3-4 callers....crazy.

Regardless, I venture to say that if in a 1500 starting chip, 10/20 starting blinds tournament if a MP player raised to 60 he'd have multiple callers almost everytime...especially online

omahilo · #5 09-21-05, 03:01 PM

I agree... very early on in online tourneys with the blinds at 10/20 lets say you could raise it to 100 and still end up with 1-2 callers.

eejit101 · #6 09-21-05, 03:11 PM

right ok, point takes, but.........

ReelDeal-Jax: posts small blind 15
Dr_N0: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ReelDeal-Jax [As Ah]
Ace3700: folds
King C69: folds
windmill78: folds
rer4dad: folds
El Carib: folds
mrbluto: folds
mateooo: calls 30
ReelDeal-Jax: raises 370 to 400

thats a 13.34x BB raise, excessive in the least

Zybomb · #7 09-21-05, 03:14 PM

On that particular one it was yes -- I said while 10x may be crazy, I wouldnt put 3x as standard early in a tournament... later on, absolutely, but not early.

Reel Deal · #8 09-21-05, 03:43 PM

In addition to what Zybomb posted, here's what also was factoring into my decisions... I had been one of the "table bullies" from the start and it was fairly effective. When I got the pocket As the first time I raised 5XBB and got one of the smaller stacks to go all-in with 44 and he rivered a 4. So, the table got to see that raise and my cards. Notice that in between the first hand history and the second (about 8 minutes apart) I had managed to get my chip stack up to where it was before the 44 sucked out on me. I'd done it by being aggressive with playable starting hands, raising every time I entered a pot. So, then the second pocket As come and I again raise 5XBB, get one caller who folds to a bet that's less than 1/2 the pot size after the flop. Very next hand I get pocket As again! My thinking now is that the table has got to be getting tired of my constant raises and I thought a big raise would look like I'm just some maniac trying to steal all the time and someone would think "he can't be getting cards every time," and would push back... I was hoping this might force someone into making a big mistake. Same thinking with the Ks, which as you can see came only a little more than a minute after the 3rd pocket As. Unfortunately, it was a table full of pansies that wouldn't mix it up.

On top of that, I didn't want to get into the pattern of leading out with a standard/identical raise each time... I think you gotta mix it up if you get a run like this. Anyway, sucks that I basically got nothing out if it so, who knows, perhaps those were not the right plays or perhaps no one had anything close enough to make the call so it didn't matter.

Gordogg · #9 09-21-05, 04:16 PM

I don't agree. Even though you had a very nice rush, I believe in making the same standard open raise every time. TP has mentioned it before and I think it's a good rule. It's more difficult to put someone on a hand if they raise the same amount every time they enter a pot. I believe people are more liable to come over the top of you when you do that. I understand your reasoning, pansies just didn't want to mix it up with ya. I would rather bet the same everytime though. There are some exceptions. Like if there were a couple loose gamblers at the table then I like your strategy. But if not, stick to the standard preflop raises.

Talking Poker · #10 09-21-05, 04:25 PM

I have said something similar to this, but this isn't exactly it. The key point is not to raise to 5x BB with AA, 3x the BB with TT and 2x the BB with some other hand. You want to have a range of opening raises that you will make and vary it RANDOMLY, not based on the cards you are holding.

To keep things simple, I do typically make very similar opening raises (usually 3-4x BB). If anything, I vary my raises based on position: Early on, you can open for less because you are getting more respect. Opening from late position though, you may want to raise a bit more, as people are more likely to think you are stealing.

Note that nowhere in there did I say that I raise X when I am dealt these two cards and I raise Y when I am dealt these other two cards. THAT is what I think can become a problem for people.

Of course, you also want to mix up limping in with AA and KK too. A good rule of thumb is to do that every 5 or 6 times you get the hands, but I tend to do it less - more like 1:15 for me, if I had to guess. I seem to regret it when I do, so I don't do it much.

Gordogg · #11 09-21-05, 04:42 PM

I agree not to make exactly 3x raises everytime. The range should be 3x-5x considering your position. I didn't clarify that. Also I agree you should limp occasionly to avoid becoming too predictable.

Reel Deal · #12 09-21-05, 04:44 PM

I can see the logic in that and how it would work well in a cash game where you might be sitting at the same table with the same people for a long period of time. In a tournament where you're getting moved around I'm not sure if it's as effective. In this instance I just thought that I had to look like a maniac to these people and I was hoping someone would say, "that's it, I'm pushing back he can't have cards every time!" and make a mistake. I was hoping that by looking like a loose over agressive player I might get a call on one of these and rake in a big pot, as opposed to a 4XBB PFR followed by my CB and a fold.

Reel Deal · #13 09-21-05, 05:05 PM

One other thing... this was, obviously, a very unique situation. I'm not saying if I got top starting hands once every 30 minutes that I would play the first one for a PFR of 5XBB, then 30 minutes later the next one for 2XBB and then after another 30 minutes go with 12XBB. These came bang, bang, bang and it just was a play I thought I might try to get some one to make a mistake that might land me more chips than a standard raise. Good chance I may never again get in a situation like this, so who knows... I guess I can look on the positive said and say at least I didn't get run down by 44 again.

BTW, those are great points TP.

Oh, like my new sig line?