The Pain Continues

SirFWALGMan · #1 11-11-05, 12:08 AM

I thought the two out suckouts were bad. So I am in the first hand at a 25/NL table. I get pocket 9s. The flop is 578 2 clubs, so I got overpair, backdoor flush, and straight draw. An idiot goes all in and I KNOW I HAVE HIM BEAT. Why? Because I am better than you and I know these things.. So anyway, I call his $36 bet with my measly $20 and he flips over 76. Not bad. I have his ass. So Middle pair is so worth your entire stack. Sooooo anyways, the 6 on the turn gives me the straight. Cool. The 6 on the river however gives him the boat. Not cool. What exactly do I have to do to win again?

Talking Poker · #2 11-11-05, 12:26 AM

I don't think he played it badly at all, for what it's worth...

SirFWALGMan · #3 11-11-05, 03:00 AM

I dunno, he was hoping to hell his straight draw was good? All $36 of his stack at a 25/NL table? 2nd Pair.. The results sucked.. runner-runner sixes after the money goes in to give me the higher straight and him the boat..

Should I have gotten away from this hand? A K or A could have doomed me just as surely if not as dramatically..

Talking Poker · #4 11-11-05, 12:34 PM

He made a semi-bluff. A pair and an up and down straight draw isn't far behind pretty much anything you could be holding.

Zybomb · #5 11-11-05, 02:19 PM

you were in great shape bc your 9s took away many of what he thought were outs if he was behind. You had 2 of his 4 outs (9s) to make the straight. Three of his two pair possibilities (6's) were negated bc thatd give you the straight

Its something in the 70%/30% neighborhood for you in this case. Maybe even 75%/25%

Thinking from his perspective, its tough to put you on directly 99. Say you had JJ instead, this is more of a coinflip now. He know has 2 outs for trips (7s) 3 outs for two pair 6s) and 8 outs for a straight (9s 4s)

I think you'd still be a slight favorite if this were the case, but Im sure itd be close to 50/50

Regardless tough beat

SirFWALGMan · #6 11-11-05, 03:44 PM

Do you guys like putting ALL of your money in a pot in a 50/50 situation. He could have easily bet out a few bucks and then if I pushed made the decision, or even made a large bet and re-evaluated on the turn. Instead he pushes all of his chips in.. I can see this in a tourney but why in a cash game? Also, do I call this in a cash game? Or do I chicken and wait for the next hand where I am favored even more.. These are the tough decisions. Even if you know your ahead is it always right to call?

JDMcNugent7 · #7 11-11-05, 04:21 PM

Yes. If you're % to win the hand after all the cards are dealt put you ahead, then of course its always right to make the call. Even when ur % doesnt put u ahead, right pot odds sometimes makes calling an all in bet the right decision, as im sure u know.

Zybomb · #8 11-11-05, 05:01 PM

You are forgetting one more VERY important thing here. Assuming he could not put you on pocket 9's, thus canceling many of his outs.... It appears he thought he had 13 outs (two 7's three 6's four 9's and four 4's) but he really had 14....and the last out was the biggest one of all. YOU FOLDING. It is MUCH easier to make this bet than to call this bet (in his spot of course) bc by calling you lost the most important out of all...the 14th

As far as the second part of your question, in my opinion YES. I think I've mentioned this before but just the other week a player raised in EP, there were two callers and I called with 7c6c in LP. The flop came 8c 9c 2s. The raiser, first to act moved the rest of his stack in (an overbet) The other two folded to me. I knew that 95% he had a pocket pair JJ-AA... and that meant that I was ahead 55/45 at that point. There were no pot odds what so ever, but in about 10 second I made this call. (I hit the flush on the turn but it paired the board, then the river paired his hole pair, jacks, giving him the boat....but thats not the point) I'd do it all over again the same way.

Talking Poker · #9 11-11-05, 05:39 PM

This is very, very, very untrue for tournament play. Hopefully you were talking about a cash game.

In a tournament, there are plenty of times when if your opponent turned his hand face up and you saw that you were slightly ahead, you should still fold. Remember, all it takes is losing one coinflip and you're out.

Zybomb · #10 11-11-05, 05:55 PM

Agreed... the advice I gave in the post above refers to a cash game

JDMcNugent7 · #11 11-11-05, 06:20 PM

Title of his post was In a Cash Game... so i was talking about cash games only as well, Tournys a whole nother story.

Talking Poker · #12 11-12-05, 01:51 AM

My point was this....

With a pair and an u pand down straight draw, he knows he's got outs NO MATTER WHAT two cards you are holding. He might be ahead. He might be even money. At worst, he is a little bit behind. By pushing in here, he puts YOU to the test and gives you the option to fold. If you fold, great, he takes down the pot. If you call, no matter what you call with, he's got outs and STILL might take down the pot.

I really don't have any problem with this play.

SirFWALGMan · #13 11-12-05, 11:14 AM

I guess I am too conservative.. I do not like putting my whole buyin at risk on basically a gutshot draw.. If I was him I would have bet the pot and seen what the next card did for me.. Anyone with a weaker hand is going to fold to a pot size bet as well as an all in I think.. I would then probably have done it again or slightly more on the turn.. The river I obviously try and extract as many chips as I can.. either by pushing at that point when I have the near nut hand or something..

Talking Poker · #14 11-12-05, 12:18 PM

Well, maybe this is something for you to think about then... It's always better to be the one putting the other guy to the test than the one taking the test. Winning NL Hold'Em is all about selective aggression...

supercow3250 · #15 11-12-05, 12:24 PM

You had him beat. I would have done the same thing if i were in ur position. How he got that 6 i never know but good luck in future games