NHL is Finally Going to have Talks - Page 2

BlackCoffee · #26 12-11-04, 01:14 AM

Its a temporary solution yes but it's a huge starting point for the owners to A. save money upfront and B. use these low salaries to set the standard in the future.

Are these owners that stupid that they will allow salaries to sprial out of control AGAIN after what's happened over the last 10 years? If so, there's nothing you can do. You can't legislate stupidity.

Penguinfan · #27 12-11-04, 08:07 AM

I guess I was just hoping for a more permenant solution so teams like my Penguins may actually put something on the ice that won't make me want to throw up in the future.

BlackCoffee · #28 12-11-04, 05:26 PM

It could be a very permanant solution if the owners take it (or something similar) and dont fuck it up again. (ie. dont pay $10 million for useless players like Holik, Guerin, Tkachuk and Fedorov)

Pens just need a new arena no matter what the solution is. But have faith. Everything goes in trends which have nothing to do with economics. Watch for the Detroits, Colorados, Phillys and New Jerseys to start falling off (no prospects) and see the younger teams (tampa, calgary, san jose, nashville, atlanta etc..) to start improving. Pens were good in the 80's, great in the 90's and suck now.. they'll improve, they have good young players (Malone, Morozov, Fleury etc..).

I'm a Flames fan, they sucked for a good 10 years and are now just starting to come around with a good young team.

Penguinfan · #29 12-11-04, 05:36 PM

The arena issue is a very, VERY touchy one here in the Burg. Mario is having a tough time convincing anyone that matters that the Pens need one. Keep in mind these are the same people who funded 2 seperate stadiums for very wealthy owners in town.

BlackCoffee · #30 12-11-04, 06:26 PM

That is the biggest problem with the NHL right now. If it can't survive in a good hockey town like pittsburgh, how can it survive in all the new southern places that it's expanded too. I can't see the NHL surviving in these cities. Bettman really messed it up.

Penguinfan · #31 12-11-04, 06:31 PM

When the state of Florida got a second team Betteman confirmed what we expected all along, he's an idiot.

thrash1294 · #32 12-11-04, 07:14 PM

I'm a thrasher fan and when you go to a game here its full of the other teams fans. its like a road game every time. But you can still a get a $10 ticket.
So the thrashers will live.

Windbreaker · #33 12-11-04, 07:25 PM

It's about time. Enough of these high priced cry babies lying and saying how they're looking out for the future of the game, when in fact all they've done was kill the league. I'm glad they put together a package that was meaningful....maybe we can't watch some real hockey this year.

BlackCoffee · #34 12-11-04, 07:46 PM

The players aren't looking out for the future of the game but they're not crybabies either. It's the owners who are crying about losing money and 'cost-certainty' and locking out the players. The players are now returning $200 million up front.. let's see what the owners think of that.

Penguinfan · #35 12-11-04, 08:43 PM

I don't think this was ever about the players crying, it's the owners who are not happy and in most cases not making money. The facts are there for all to see, change needs to happen or nobody will make any money soon. Keep in mind the people who work during the games as well, they aer not recieving income right now, and this is a tough time of the year to be out of work. I'm not asking you to shed a tear for anyone here, but right now it would appear that the players greed, or more accuratly the NHLPA's greed is bigger than anything it affects.

BlackCoffee · #36 12-11-04, 09:28 PM

I dont know how you can say the players are greedy when they're giving back 24% of salary plus other consessions in the proposal. As for the workers, I feel for them too. Maybe the owners should have just kept the season going without a contract and still negotiate. Companies do that all the time. I'm a civil servant and I've worked without a contract before.. it's a little unstable but in the the end something gets worked out. Bettman is so desperate now, he doesnt know what to do. He's cancelling the season to save his own ass.

Penguinfan · #37 12-11-04, 10:16 PM

Your right, I worded that wrong, it's the NHLPA that is being greedy on the part of the top 1% of playres that is jamming things up. As far as cancelling the season I didn't hear anything about that, did you really hear he cancelled it?
I work in a union job as well and never have had a contract settled before the old one expired and we have always worked through it because they pay us retroactive to the end date of the last contract based on the new agreement so it's really no big deal, just gimme my money!

BlackCoffee · #38 12-11-04, 10:38 PM

He hasn't cancelled it yet.. but if his counteroffer on tuesday is out of whack, you'll know that he intended this the whole time.

Yes, the real world can meet and compromise but these goofs cant. Hockey isnt that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

BlackCoffee · #39 12-15-04, 12:38 AM

As I suspected. Bettman's goal is to cancel the season no matter what.
The players proposal was a start that the owners could have began discussions on. Instead, they come with the a ridiculous offer that nobody could accept. 35% paycut for over 5 mill *who the heck would give back 1.5 mill). no signing bonuses, no arbitration, and 50% share of revenue whatever they are, even if they're really low.

Bettman's taken the game down the drain, they might as well blow up the NHL now and start the Champions League of Hockey in Europe.

GeoffM · #40 12-15-04, 08:26 AM

No, I think you got it wrong. I think yesterday's NHL offer was trying to divide the union. Very clever on Bettman's part, IMO. Most players in the league make under $800,000, so if they knew they wouldn't be taking a pay cut, they are probably pretty pissed off right now the deal wasn't signed.

BlackCoffee · #41 12-15-04, 01:34 PM

Isn't dividing the union a way of destroying the game? Sports unions are extremely strong, nobody is going to cross the picket line. Players under $800,000 cannot agree to this deal either. They wont get a paycut that's true. But they dont have very long contracts compared to the multi-yeared rich guys. And when they do sign a new deal, it will have no bonuses, no arbitration and a salary cap based on revenue (which will decrease because hockey is hurting)

Let's take the maple leafs as an example, their payroll is $65 mill. The rollback takes them to about 50 mill. How do they get from 50 mill to the cap of 35? you think they're going to cut sundin and belfour? It's all the $800,000 guys that will have to take a 'voluntary' paycut or get released.

What happens when you have hot rookies come in and you have a salary cap? Someone has to get cut to make room for him.. it's the $800,000 guys.

The owners should have negotiated off the pplayers deal instead of coming up with a radical one. Bettman wants to fix all his dumb mistakes in one swoop and legislate the dumb owners. By doing this, he's taking the game down the drain.