Small blind is a pisser

PShabi · #1 09-14-05, 02:41 PM

Say you have 3 dipshits limp to you in the small blind. You have the BB left, but he'll check 90% of the time if not more.

The blind structure is 1/3 in a $3/$6 6-max game.

What's the low end of profitable hands you can (or more importantly should) compelete with in this spot?

Talking Poker · #2 09-14-05, 03:45 PM

I'm used to a structure where the SB = half the BB, and not 1/3, so I'm going to answer on that account...

But in this scenario, I would complete with pretty much any two suited cards and any two cards cards within 2 gaps of each other... ie, I'd fold 62o, but I'd call with 52o and J2s.

Be prepared to be 100% done with the hand though unless you flop at least 2 pair or a strong draw.

I used to be tighter in the SB, but I think that's a mistake...

Edi: Actually, thinking about it more, I don't really think I'd complete with 52 (Well, I don't, so I'm not sure why I said I would). I would complete with T7 though... My 2 gap range line is probably more in the 96 neighborhood. I'd play all connectors though and most 1 gappers, at least down to 64.

lightfungus · #3 09-14-05, 05:45 PM

What is the difference between a 1, 2, or 3 gap...statistically not what is it. Like why would you fold a 3 gap and complete with the 2 gap when they all have the straight possibility....oh is it because there are more straight possibilities with the lower gaps?

Talking Poker · #4 09-14-05, 06:01 PM

Exactly. I'll give you an example:

With 48, you can make a (non-nut) straight with ONLY:
567

With 58, you can make straights with:
467 (nut)
679

With 68, you can make the following straights:
457 (nut)
579 (nut)
689

With 78, you can make these straights:
456 (nut)
569 (nut)
69T (nut)
9TJ

The smaller the gap, the easier it is to make a straight.

Your turn: How list all the straights you can make with JT and how many of them are the nuts?

Now you'll see why people like JT so much (too much, IMO).

eejit101 · #5 09-14-05, 06:03 PM

789 nut
89Q nut
9QK nut
QKA nut

(did i mention im a genius, saw through your plan matey)

Talking Poker · #6 09-14-05, 06:31 PM

Correctamundo (duh). There are 4 ways to make a nut straight with JT. That's more than any other hand, obviously.

Zybomb · #7 09-14-05, 09:04 PM

Wouldnt that be a nut?

Zybomb · #8 09-14-05, 09:10 PM

As for the actual question (and this is responding using a 1 chip 2 chip Blind structure, as I have no played a 1 chip 3 chip blind structure....I assume my req's would be slightly more strict though in a 1 chip 3 chip)

I complete with any playable cards.

I define playable as 1 gap connectors or better, any two suited cards and 2 cards 9 or higher. I'll probably complete with any ace as well.

With many other hands I'll raise trying to steal if the table is passive enough

Ill also call with a lot of trash hands if the table is full of people who will pay you off big should you get lucky.

Edit: Ignore that raise comment -- I was assuming a NL game. In limit that wont nearly be effective.

Talking Poker · #9 09-14-05, 10:48 PM

Indeed.

I typed that whole thing up in about 2 minutes. Whoops.

bdawg31 · #10 09-15-05, 10:54 AM

I think its okay to be tigher in the SB (and BB when there is a raise) if you are newer to Hold Em, or even to just short-seated. Playing these kinds of hands that TP talks about takes experience. And while its easy to say "I will just dump them if i dont flop a monster" its easier said than done. Also, you want to be able to recognize when you flop a medium-strong hand - then what? For people newer to Hold Em or Short Seated - i would suggest staying tigher in the blinds. I mention being new to short-seated because i feel that it takes some time to adjust from full ring to short seated in terms of analyzing hand strength.

PShabi · #11 09-15-05, 11:01 AM

But most short-seated players say that you have to make more steals and defend more in the blinds. Isn't what your saying here contradicting that?

Can a novice be successful at 3/6 or above (6max) without being aggressive in defending?

Talking Poker · #12 09-15-05, 12:06 PM

Yes. I certainly was. I used to play the blinds much tighter than I do now.

I agree with bdawg here.

PShabi · #13 09-15-05, 12:36 PM

I need to reevaluate my blind plays. It just seems I'm in so many marginal situations and I beat myself up over making the correct decision when there's no cut and dry correct choice.

I'm just gonna start posting hands.

lightfungus · #14 09-15-05, 01:53 PM

Did PokerNovice change to bdawg?

bdawg31 · #15 09-15-05, 02:45 PM

Yeah, i changed my name on here to be my normal screen name when playing.

bdawg31 · #16 09-15-05, 02:53 PM

..one would think you would have to steal/defend more - since the blinds come around so fast and blah-blah-blah. But, the fact is, vs the 'gamblers' and goofs that you are going to see - you get paid PLENTY on your legitimate hands to make up for all of that.

Also, it is rare that you steal many blinds. I think TP will back me on this - but i RARELY see a raise and all fold preflop. Not enough to make it a profitable play. You might want to throw in some semi-bluff steals to mix things up when you are the first in - but dont make it a rule.

Now, lets say that we had a 6-seated table with TP, you, Chip, AEQ, me (if i may be so bold to lump myself in that group) buckets, etc... - THEN i would say you would have to take that strategy of stealing/defending more often. But a table with you, one other strong player and 4 dorks - i dont think its worth it.

I will defend my BB a little loose vs SB only due to positional advantage. I dont get cute with early position raisers. I have noticed that cutting down on the blatant steal attempts as well as over-defending seems to cut down on my fluxuations. Maybe long-term there is some profit in doing it right - but for someone newer to short-seated (and heck i have logged quite a few hands and i dont do it that much) i dont think its worth it.

Aequitas58 · #17 09-15-05, 03:15 PM

Good analysis ... even better that I'm mentioned... umm, what else...

LOL.

Just to elaborate, or add to what you were saying: at the lower limits I don't think "stealing" is profitable. "Stealing" means that you are betting / raising w/ garbage looking to take the pot or blinds. J2o, 93s, etc. Shit hands.

Value-betting with position, on the other hand, can and is profitable. Let's say our hero is on the button w/ A9s. (If it's folded to him at a 6Max game), the proper move is a raise here. Against two random hands (SB, BB) I think he's ahead. Of course, this looks like a steal to either blind.

So the more difficult question is what happens if / when it's threebet.

Talking Poker · #18 09-15-05, 06:23 PM

Dude, this was so last week:

Talking Poker · #19 09-15-05, 06:25 PM

Given this definition, I virtually never try to steal blinds in 6 max limit.

nutbag · #20 09-15-05, 07:11 PM

Getting in late from the original post. From the frist part I completely agree with TP about sb seeing a bunch but giving up almost all of them post.

While for the part you asked about defending blinds. I hate defending in the Sb, you're always out of position, and unless you hit something big, It's tough to take the lead in the hand. Persoanlly, I used to end up in way to many, Call, hit pair, checkraise, then you bet and get raised again. Besides premium hands, It think it's really difficult to play other hands profitably from the sb. Plus I'm just not good enough to lay down hands when I hit a pair but still run into aggression, so I try to avoid the situation with marginal hands instead of playing them.