dutch boyd

junYUN · #1 12-01-04, 03:17 PM

what is the "poker spot" fiasco that people talk about? dutch boyd somehow involved and now everyone hates him?

Penguinfan · #2 12-01-04, 03:25 PM

Not that I would ever direct someone to RGP, but it might be easiest to do a search on him there.

I am a bit biased as I wasn't a customer that lost money at PokerSpot and have talked several times with Dutch and have a great deal of respect for him. You will get people who tell you just the opposite.

The story that I have goes like this, and you will get different angles from everyone, and I am not saying I am right.

He operated with partners a place called pokerspot.com that was taking deposits via credit card, the credit card processing company never gave them the money for the deposits, thus they had no way to pay the players who wanted cashouts and the players got screwed in the deal. Thats the short of it, though I am sure there is more to it. I tend to believe Boyd and his partners as they stood to make a bunch more money via the rake than they made stealing deposits.

Although Dutch wasn't the only one involved people seem to hold him responsible, probably because he was very visible during the 03 WSOP.

Thats just my take, like I said you can find more info.

ChipFish · #3 12-01-04, 03:47 PM

You are giving facts here.

Unfortunately, you are leaving out many, many facts which support the reasoning why Dutch's reputation is worthless.

Put it this way...
Would you risk any money on one of his sites?
I won't.

Talking Poker · #4 12-01-04, 04:22 PM

I've been considering adding Interviews to this site in the near future, and Dutch is one of the people on my mental list. I met him at this year's WSOP, and he was nothing but kind to me - seemed to be very down to earth, and a very likeable guy.

Maybe I could get in touch with him and let him explain his side of the story here. I know I have read about it on his site, but maybe he'd be able to answer any specific questions people have. I'll try to get in touch with him...

More info:

Penguinfan · #5 12-01-04, 04:24 PM

Can you elaborate?

ChipFish · #6 12-01-04, 04:28 PM

Yes I can. Will I? No.
Sorry.

Penguinfan · #7 12-01-04, 04:49 PM

Thats fair, no problem.

Defendant · #8 12-01-04, 04:52 PM

TP, id like that. Unlike the highly opinionated crew at RGP, I believe most of us here have a bit more open minds as to where both sides of the story should be heard, and who better to present Dutch's side than Dutch!

Defendant

eddo31 · #9 12-01-04, 05:05 PM

do you think that we would actually get legitimate answers to any of the questions we ask? i have read what he posted about pokerspot, but the cynical side of me thinks that the only reason he is trying to clear his own name is that there is serious money to be made in other online poker projects right now.

i dont know him at all, and it doesnt really matter to me how he is portrayed on the wsop, but i would be very wary of ever depositing anythign with him.

Penguinfan · #10 12-01-04, 05:24 PM

Eddo, I think that is the pretty common response. I personally would play at a site he owned simply because of the conversations I have had with him, though I would feel like a real jack-ass if I got ripped off.

ChipFish · #11 12-01-04, 05:37 PM

As I'm sure the players felt the "first" time.

PShabi · #12 12-01-04, 06:16 PM

I don't know if he's to blame or not for the people not getting their money but I wouldn't put it any into his site. Hell, I don't even let my Party/ Pac accounts get too big.

It's 50/50 and for me, that's not the right odds. Don't be fooled by his "favorable" coverage on the WSOP. That's TV. However, I am in now waying condemning him either.

I love his story about his name though. Someone asked him his name at the table and it was noisy. He told him his real name (Don't recall it but it sounded nothing like Dutch) and the guy said "Dutch? That's pretty cool." The name stuck.

Penguinfan · #13 12-01-04, 06:34 PM

If I remember correctly his real name is Russ and I am not basing anything on the WSOP coverage, simply based on conversations we have had. I am sure nobody has a conversation with another individual they don't really know and says "hey you should see the time I screwed a bunch of people out of their cash". Like I said though, given what I have seen I am a big fan of his and hope to see him around the forum here.

drewjax · #14 12-01-04, 11:43 PM

Cool, I finally got most of the 411 on this. I have been hearing about this for awhile now. Seems logical but you never know. The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle.

eddo31 · #15 12-02-04, 12:49 AM

my only real point with this is that unless dutch comes up with the greatest online site around, i doubt that he will get much traffic. even if everything he did with poker spot was above board, his name is now tarnished because of his involvement and people perceptions.

with so many other options that seem at least reasonably safe, i doubt i would deposit with him at all. i generally dont trust any of the smaller sites anyways, so it would really take something special for me to deposit with him.

drewjax · #16 12-02-04, 01:10 AM

I agree with all the choices it doesnt make much sense. but people love to be somehow, anyhow affiliated with poker pros. they feel apart of the the whole wsop craze etc. I bet it will do ok, but explode I dont know. I agree the smaller sites wouldnt get my money, but some have given free bonus (tropics, mirabelle) so I'll play them abit. Thats why I like the mid level rooms. Not the huge top 3 or 4, and definately not the tons of new small ones.

rchamberlin · #17 12-02-04, 08:49 AM

I wasn't even playing online poker yet when this all happened, but I still don't think I'd deposit money with a site he was affiliated with. Not necessarily because I think he's a crook and ran off with peoples money, but rather because it doesn't inspire much confidence in his business sense.

badblood44 · #18 12-02-04, 11:37 AM

I'd have to agree w/ rchamberlin. I've predicted that at some point in the future, the US gov't will make this online poker thing illegal. I'm constantly cashing out such that there's never too much money in any one poker site's account.

With respect to Pokerspot, I believe that much of the problem is with how Dutch handled the business once he could no longer receive the money due to him via the credit card transactions.

He attempted to continue the business' normal operation by funding it through players' deposited money. That was the big no-no as the money was never his to begin with. You can imagine how things snow-balled from there.

The above is my recollection of the RGP posts made on the subject.

Baseballa19 · #19 12-02-04, 01:57 PM

How can US laws make offshore gambling illegal? Are they going to shut down the cruise industry?

badblood44 · #20 12-02-04, 03:41 PM

I was speaking of online gambling/poker, not physical trips to places where gambling is legal. One may argue that they are virtually the same, but they are not necessarily so.

As for online poker, I think it already is illegal in many states, New York to name one.

Enforcing it is a different matter, however.

How can they? Perhaps they go to the major ISP's and track which users are using the network ports associated with online poker sites. They get your name and issue you a subpoena.

It is technically feasible, but right now there is no motivation to pursue a single offender. However, there was a point in 1999 where many thought there was no way the RIAA was going to be able to put a dent in .mp3 music sharing. Perhaps they haven't, but I do know that several people have been sued for sharing music files online.

Talking Poker · #21 12-02-04, 04:16 PM

Who's to say that list of users aren't playing for "play money" - surely they can't outlaw that.

I'm not saying this will or won't be a problem in the next few years... only that it's not going to be as easy to enforce as one might think.

badblood44 · #22 12-02-04, 04:48 PM

I agree that it will be difficult to tell, but if they subpoena your PC (hypothetically) they'd be able to check your hand histories as well as perhaps obtain enough account information to prove you were playing for money.

junYUN · #23 12-02-04, 06:41 PM

wow, that's pretty bad. i didn't really know much about dutch boyd (i was not an RGP member) but this sheds a little light on the situation. what are the "other" things chipfish talked about? some things he did before the pokerspot? after? or more facts about pokerspot?

Chutups · #24 12-04-04, 07:30 AM

That's a good idea TP, I've read so much negative stuff I'ld like to see what he says.

Dutch Boyd · #25 12-07-04, 12:17 PM

Hey all,

So I got an email from the administrator here, who I met this year at the WSOP main event. He was cool enough to let me use his media pass to get inside the velvet rope and check on my brother. Pretty useful having one of those passes... the bullpen is a circus during the main event.

Anyway, he emailed me and said that I might come on and check out the discussion going on about me. I don't have that much new to say about Pokerspot, but can give some places where you can see what has been said before. First, I posted some info about the site on my blog at . Check it out if you get the chance. Also, there is a an interview up at under the FAQ page.

One thing I will say is this... I'm not trying to make a quick buck in online poker. If you've followed what I've been up to in the last couple of years, I've been working pretty hard to try and get a rakefree cardroom out there. It really is sick how much money goes down that hole. I'd estimate Party is making at least a quarter of a billion a year in rakes.

Also, if anybody has any specific questions they can either ask them here or shoot me an email. I'd prefer that you ask them here, though, so that I can get some money for answering the post.

Great concept here by the way, admin. I really hope this site continues to boom. And if you do get around to doing interviews, know that I'll support your site anyway I can.

Cheers,
Dutch