The TalkingPoker.com Forum  

Go Back   The TalkingPoker.com Forum > All Things Poker > General Poker Discussion
Register Blogs Arcade HH Converter Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-06-08, 01:04 PM
hackers238's Avatar
hackers238 hackers238 is offline
Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 477
hackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Points
Default Idea for a business

To my knowledge it hasn't been done, so here goes.

Why not have a program on a server datamine every table at every limit all times of the day and store the information. Then charge people $xx a month to be allowed to connect to it, and query x players a day (I think 1000 might be a good baseline). Then PokerAce could be configured not to get statistics from your own system, but statistics from the central database accessable online.

Now when you sit at tables, you will see stats accumulated over every hand that screen name has ever played at the given site. No more datamining, and no more hassle. Just open up pokerace and go.
__________________
Poker Blog - www.hackers238poker.blogspot.com

Note to Self - Play ABC Poker.
  #2  
Old 02-06-08, 01:12 PM
Wes Wes is offline
Forum Addict
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,879
Blog Entries: 23
Wes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

It's been done a few times before, and is strictly against the rules of the TOC of pretty much every major site. Once you become known, sites will ban your "service" and if people get caught using it they may confiscate the user's funds.
  #3  
Old 02-06-08, 01:30 PM
Talking Poker's Avatar
Talking Poker Talking Poker is offline
Adminimus Maximus
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida Coast
Posts: 27,480
Talking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

Right.

The alternative to this is collecting and selling the data (the raw HHs that you then import into your own PT), ala . I don't know if it's against TOS or not (probably is), but I would think it would be much harder if not impossible for the poker sites to detect you using them.

But like everything else, by the time you come up with an idea, someone else has already done it.... and probably many times over. At least that's always been my experience.
__________________

Got RakeBack?
27% at Full Tilt | 33% at Cake Poker | 30% at Carbon Poker
  #4  
Old 02-06-08, 01:54 PM
CalifNaughti's Avatar
CalifNaughti CalifNaughti is offline
Calling Station
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northern Calif.
Posts: 180
CalifNaughti has between 10 and 49 Rep Points
Default

I personaly think that Poker Sites are able to detect much moere than they are letting on. Just look at what happened with d/ling music. They got into the computer and found music.
__________________
You Can Cash With Skill
You Can Go Deep With Skill
You Can't Win With Out Luck



Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the donkey, I will fear no river....
  #5  
Old 02-06-08, 02:08 PM
hackers238's Avatar
hackers238 hackers238 is offline
Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 477
hackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Points
Default

So it's against the rules of the TOC to make them publically available, but not to use PT/HUD on your own machine?

Or is it illegal to use PT/HUD as well and I just don't know?
__________________
Poker Blog - www.hackers238poker.blogspot.com

Note to Self - Play ABC Poker.
  #6  
Old 02-06-08, 02:47 PM
Wes Wes is offline
Forum Addict
 

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,879
Blog Entries: 23
Wes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsWes has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

Pretty much.

Poker Edge, Poker Prophecy, and TheCashDB all come to mind for what your idea basically is.
  #7  
Old 02-06-08, 06:20 PM
Talking Poker's Avatar
Talking Poker Talking Poker is offline
Adminimus Maximus
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida Coast
Posts: 27,480
Talking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

Um... no. They didn't.
__________________

Got RakeBack?
27% at Full Tilt | 33% at Cake Poker | 30% at Carbon Poker
  #8  
Old 02-06-08, 06:27 PM
Talking Poker's Avatar
Talking Poker Talking Poker is offline
Adminimus Maximus
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida Coast
Posts: 27,480
Talking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

You should read the TOS for the sites where you are playing. Most sites are fine with PT and PAHud (Stars, Full Tilt) so long as you are ONLY using data from your own play with your opponents and not an outside source, but some sites don't even want you to do that (Cake).

You can find a list of approved and forbidden add on programs at most sites. , taken straight from their (currently 36 acceptable and 21 banned programs).
__________________

Got RakeBack?
27% at Full Tilt | 33% at Cake Poker | 30% at Carbon Poker
  #9  
Old 02-06-08, 06:33 PM
BlibbityBlabbity's Avatar
BlibbityBlabbity BlibbityBlabbity is offline
Run Silent || Run Deep
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,403
BlibbityBlabbity has between 750 and 999 Rep PointsBlibbityBlabbity has between 750 and 999 Rep PointsBlibbityBlabbity has between 750 and 999 Rep PointsBlibbityBlabbity has between 750 and 999 Rep PointsBlibbityBlabbity has between 750 and 999 Rep PointsBlibbityBlabbity has between 750 and 999 Rep PointsBlibbityBlabbity has between 750 and 999 Rep Points
Default

Yeah, in order for them (say FT or PS) to catch you purchasing HHs and importing them into your PT DB, they would actually have to have a program on your computer (see trojan horse virus) that not only accessed your PT DB, but also interpreted the HHs in your DB and looked to see if you had more than x% that you were not involved in (or some other set of criteria).

That is so far beyond a reasonable step and an infringement of the player's privacy. I can't imagine them thinking they could get away with it without HUGE backlash a la Absolute-super-user-etc, etc.
__________________
Your biggest edge in a HORSE tourney is knowing that the game just changed from Razz to 7 Stud. - BB

http://www.talkingpoker.com/forum/blog.php?u=64
  #10  
Old 02-06-08, 08:50 PM
Talking Poker's Avatar
Talking Poker Talking Poker is offline
Adminimus Maximus
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida Coast
Posts: 27,480
Talking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

And much more simply put, the RIAA doesn't catch people by sneaking into their computers and looking for music that may or may not have been acquired illegally. They catch them by looking at who is sharing what on the P2P and torrent sites. IP addresses are listed right there, plain as day.
__________________

Got RakeBack?
27% at Full Tilt | 33% at Cake Poker | 30% at Carbon Poker
  #11  
Old 02-07-08, 07:39 AM
Kurn's Avatar
Kurn Kurn is offline
cha'DIch of the Poker Gods
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Warwick, RI
Posts: 3,584
Kurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep PointsKurn User has between 2000 and 2499 Rep Points
Default

Actually, for PokerStars, *any* group of HHs you're not involved in would be a violation of thet T&Cs.
__________________
"Animals die, friends die, and I shall die. But the one thing that will never die is the reputation I leave behind."

Old Norse adage
  #12  
Old 02-07-08, 11:16 AM
hackers238's Avatar
hackers238 hackers238 is offline
Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 477
hackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Points
Default

According to the above link from TP for stars:

Wow, those are two surprises. And although they can't "look in your computer" while you are doing things, they most certainly know which tables you have open and for how long. And considering datamining is illegal, it will be interesting to see if anyone gets "busted" for leaving 16 tables open for 10 hours a day while never sitting at one.
__________________
Poker Blog - www.hackers238poker.blogspot.com

Note to Self - Play ABC Poker.
  #13  
Old 02-07-08, 11:22 AM
hackers238's Avatar
hackers238 hackers238 is offline
Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 477
hackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Points
Default

Straight from the stars site. And technically Calif is right in a sense, because the Pokerstars SOFTWARE itself can be a "trojan horse", and there would be little way of us knowing. The only way of knowing would be to physically examine the packets of information the client program is sending to the stars server for any information you don't want to send (ie, the filesystem of your computer), and deleting it. But obviously this is near impossible, as there's no way of knowing that the stars server would accept messages with information deleted, and getting it to accept modified packets would be the near equivalent of hacking the stars server.

Very interesting. Of course I'm not saying that they could somehow "sneak out" your hard drive slowly through you pressing the call/fold buttons, but they could definitely see if your hand history DB was growing while you weren't sitting at a table, as long as they coded it into the stars client software.

Very interesting indeed.
__________________
Poker Blog - www.hackers238poker.blogspot.com

Note to Self - Play ABC Poker.
  #14  
Old 02-07-08, 11:25 AM
hackers238's Avatar
hackers238 hackers238 is offline
Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 477
hackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Pointshackers238 has between 250 and 499 Rep Points
Default

Sorry for the repeated postings, but here's straight from Full Tilt's TOS

I'm really curious about people getting busted for datamining now!
__________________
Poker Blog - www.hackers238poker.blogspot.com

Note to Self - Play ABC Poker.
  #15  
Old 02-07-08, 01:13 PM
Talking Poker's Avatar
Talking Poker Talking Poker is offline
Adminimus Maximus
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida Coast
Posts: 27,480
Talking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

Just to clarify:

You guys do see that there is a HUGE difference between seeing what other programs you have running while you are playing and actually digging through data stored on your hard drive, right?

I'm not a big fan of it for privacy reasons, but overall, I'm glad they are doing their part to detect bots and other programs that could help people "cheat."

But no one is actually analzying your PT databases to make sure you aren't datamining, etc... come on. There are much easier ways to do it than that.
__________________

Got RakeBack?
27% at Full Tilt | 33% at Cake Poker | 30% at Carbon Poker
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2004-2008 TalkingPoker.com