What's your dream table?

[Talking Poker]

It wasn't quite that black and white (or at all malicious, like you are trying to suggest)... but I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.

[CalifNaughti]

My Poker Dream table would be

1) Phil Helmuth (he melts my heart...such a bad boy!)

2) Gus Hansen

3) Antonio E. (the magician)

4) Daniel N.

5) Doyle B.

[Kurn]

Malice is irrelevant. Players' deposits should never be comingled with operating capital. Players are not investors

From Fildy:

He filed bankruptcy from what I remember. He wasn't stealing anyones money, he was crippled financially as well after everything went down.


Bankruptcy does not excuse him. If his business went bankrupt, the players' money should still be in a separate account (one that is insured) and his inability to pay his debts should in no way impact his ability to refund players' funds.

Bi-polar is a disease just like cancer, aids, or multi-personality disorder.

Yes, Bi-Polar is a medical condition. No. It is not "just like" cancer or AIDS. It impacts a person's ability to behave rationally, but it is controllable with the proper meds. Boyd has a documented history of going off his meds. Someone who is bipolar who goes off his meds is no different than an alcoholic who starts drinking again after being sober. By voluntarily abdicating their own RESPONSIBILITY to maintain their own treatment, the lose the ethical right to the "it's a disease" argument.

On top of that, Boyd has NEVER taken resoponsibility or made any attempt to make amends to the people whose deposits he stole.

[Fildy]

Fuck You. I honestly mean that in the nicest possible way. Until you have experienced something you have no idea. Yes bi-polar is treatable with meds. Meds that make you feel like a fucking zombie, walking around each and every day with no emotion, no feeling hardly interacting with anyone. You know what they treat bi-polar with? LITHIUM! Lithium is used to "cure" schizophrenia, a disease that IMO is 100xs worse and more serious than bi-polar. I don't currently take my meds. I didn't like it, I didn't like the way it made me feel, and I don't blame him for not wanting to take them either. Luckily I have had very few issues since I have stopped taking my meds, but when I made the decision to stop I told myself that I would deal with whatever happened rather than being a zombie for the rest of my life.

I read Boyd's Blog when he posts on it. I can honestly say that he feels the same way about the meds and tries to stay away from others when he is having an episode, and I think he does a very good job of controlling himself off of his meds despite the severity of his issues.

I know people like to pretend that they understand, or know what something is like. Kurn I honestly like you and think that you are a very good poster on this site, but please do not cast judgment on someone unless you have walked a mile in their shoes.

This could lead to a very long rant on children and the use of adderall(sp) and ritlin(sp) but I really don't want to go there right now.

[Talking Poker]

I'm not judging either way (really), but you have to appreciate this post for it's irony.

Also, what the heck is wrong with Dutch's shoes???

[Kurn]

Meds that make you feel like a fucking zombie, walking around each and every day with no emotion, no feeling hardly interacting with anyone.

That must suck, no doubt. But, and its a big one, Boyd also is bright enough to know that if he CHOOSES to go off the meds he MUST take responsibility for his actions after that.

Just because someone has a disease, and the meds for that disease have unpleasant side effects does not absolve them of personal responsibility and accountability.

[Fildy]

Understand and agree 100%, I never tried to say that he didn't need to take responsibility for things he did while off his meds. I don't think he tried to blame his bi-polar for anything that he has done. If I am wrong please correct me now.

All I was trying to say is that it is a disease, and there may be meds for the disease, but in no way can we blame him for not taking them. Now if he is blaming being off the meds for shit that he has done then that is a different story.

[Kurn]

Fair enough.

[New Guy]

Irony is funny! Fiddly i really didnt mean to offend so im sorry if I did.Kurn your right he did start using depos to cover and that is not only illegal but so messed up in everyway.He won a major event after all that went down at the wsop and something should have been done some sort of effert IMO.!!

[Talking Poker]

Again, I don't blame you for feeling the way you do, but you are misstating some things - intentionally or not, I'm not sure.

Boyd didn't "steal" the money. Sure, his business went under and he handled it very poorly and made some poor decisions and tried to cover it up and lied and so on.... but he didn't profit from this. He didn't WANT this to happen. You make it sound like he was the scammer here, and not the person who got scammed and then dealt with it poorly.

And as I understand it, the money was in a separate account (at first) - only after it was stolen from him did he try to buy time by using other players deposits to cover cashouts and so on and so forth.

It was an ugly situation, but I will say again that I don't think he intended for any of this to happen... so I think calling him a thief is a bit much. Just my .

This was over 3 years ago, but here is what Dutch had to say about it himself when a similar thread got going:


Unfortunately, the links he provided no longer work... I wonder what he's been up to lately.

P.S. Nice thread hijack!

[Kurn]

Here's my understanding of what happened. If I'm wrong, I'll own up to it.

Boyd started the site. he took deposits from players. At some point, he ran out of working capital and began using the players deposited funds to supplement working capital.

*If* that is true, that is FRAUD regardless of his intent. In fact, a jurist might say that intent follows the money. Nobody deposits money at a poker site with the expectation that it may go to paying operating expenses. The site is welcome to all income they make off depositors money, but they (in an ethical business sense) may not touch the principle.

If that's not how it went down, let me know and I'll rethink it.

[Talking Poker]

This is incorrect. Their payment processor basically closed up shop and ran off with all the money. While trying to get the money back, Boyd made some less than truthful statements to reassure the players, and then was using incoming deposits to pay cashout requests. When he wasn't able to recoup the money the payment processor ran off with, the gig was up.

Your version of what happened is not really close to the facts - at least as I've read them.

[melioris]

my understanding of what happened is that both your version and Kurn's version are true. The whole payment processor storyline was relevant because, by the time that happened, the site was using deposits to cover operating costs and withdraws. So when the payment processor cut and run, the whole thing was revealed as a Ponzi scheme.

[Kurn]

Thanks. I'll do some digging to read up on it.

However,

Boyd made some less than truthful statements to reassure the players, and then was using incoming deposits to pay cashout requests.

This is still fraud. I apologize for getting up on the soap box here, but this industry that we care about (not to mention basic individual freedom) is under attack. It is incumbent upon us to hold the industry to the highest standards or we run the risk of the Kyl's and Goodlattes of the world saying "I told you so."

When the '03 ME was being televised, 2p2 went wild about Boyd being played up so positively. We sit and watch ESPN make Men the Master out to be some folk hero when nobody has ever disproved the rampant rumors that he runs cheat teams in major tournaments. (My opinion - they can't disprove it because it is true).

Back to Dutch. Maybe I was a little strong in my wording. The baseball bat part I can rethink. And to Fildy, maybe Boyd's lapse in judgment can be attributed to his medical condition, but from a distance it looks like sociopathic behavior.

Finally, I apologize for hijacking the thread.

[Reel Deal]

Apology accepted.

Now, can we get back to some good strip poker lists, please?