read PT numbers

[Invigilator]

Oh Yeah, sorry. This is full ring. I tried some 6 max last week and got my head handed to me. I will try again soon.

Does the PFR indicate anything about loosseness, or does that just come from VPIP?

[stormswa]

if someone is raising alot preflop then that means they dont have to have a good hand all the time, or could mean they are just hitting a good run of cards.

alot also depends on what position they are raising it in, you really cant go by just one numer you need to combine the numbers.

if someone NEVER raises preflop then they raise UTG, say they got like a 1 - 1.5 PFR then they raise UTG you can say they most likley have a pretty strong hand. If someone raises from button and they have a high PFR then they might not be that strong. Like everything in poker alot depends on position.

[stormswa]

like I said you need to add numbers together to get a idea.


VP$IP= 31.12
PFR = 15.0

that is what we call loose aggressive, as you see they are running alot of hands and raising alot pre-flop so see the vpip is loose and the pfr shows aggressive. Now that vpip is very very high, that is not a good LAG player but he still is loose aggressive.


vp$ip= 12.2
PFR = 1.0


that is what we call a nit, as you see he dosent enter that many pots and he never raises pre-flop, also his numbers per street should be low also but he could be tight preflop and loose after flop.

vpip= 12.2
PFR= 15.3

that is a TAG player tight aggressive, he is very choosy on hands but plays them aggressive.


again this is just preflop and after the flop the numbers could be totally different. He might be a total nit preflop but then totally change after the flop and become a maniac. You really just cant give us one number and expect us to analize some random player.


as for the example above when you gave us per street number he is a total lag player, no matter what TP says. And like I said you should play the opposite of the way your opponent plays. So you tighten up. Through only 150 hands we can get a idea of his play style but then again he might just be on a rush. You tighten up and play your hands aggressively but I also would like to see you playing back at him once and awhile with hands like AQ suited and stuff because that alot of time will be well ahead of his range. So against him id say selective aggression is the key.

[Invigilator]

Okay. Thanks though for what you gave me. Given that the PT numbers are dependent on each other and on position, there are a lot of relational subtleties that I am trying to understand.

[Invigilator]

The help I have been getting lately has been great. I am going to try and lay of the questions a bit for a week or two and try to absorb and apply the principles you guys have got me thinking about. (not going away though). I will post and comment and even show you the good and bad of the hands I play, but I think I need some time to try to make these ideas a practical reality in my game.

I am going to over lap this with my preparations for the WCOOF. This is going to be my first attempts to satty into a larger tournament, and the $5 and $10 events will be the biggest events I have ever played. In my little world, I am getting pretty excited about it.

cue cool training montage music (like in Rocky or the Karate Kid)...

[Talking Poker]

I don't have time right now to get too deep into this (maybe later), but I feel that I NEED to warn you to take the things "Raistlin" is saying with a grain of salt. He's speaking very matter of factly, saying: "This means this and that means that, so therefore you need to do this." And not only is it not that simple, but that's just not right... as evidenced by him being a losing player still after 3+ years or however long it's been. I mean, for the TAG example he gave above, those numbers aren't even possible. GL raising 15 hands out of 100 while only playing 12 out of 100 - that's a neat trick right there.

Also, classifying a guy who is limping in more than he is raising preflop as aggressive, well, that's just not right. And the per street numbers are shaky at best after 150 hands, but 1-2 certainly isn't off the charts crazy aggressive. I only play 6 max, but my PT aggressions number on the flop is > 5. My total for all streets is > 4.

As for his advice of backing off against Mr. 28/12 when the flop comes 952 - wow. I really couldn't disagree with this more.

I'm not trying to attack Brian here or say that he's completely wrong or anything like that... I just see him giving some bad advice and I don't want you to put too much value into it. I mean, if any given losing player teaches you to play exactly like them - guess what????

OK, I spent more time on that than I expected. Gotta go........

[Invigilator]

Yikes!

I don't want to start a fight between you two.

Remember, I'm Mr. peace and love.

"I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony. I'd like to buy the world a [product placement] and keep it company. La la la la la......... la la la la la......."

Pokerwise, understanding that this person is still LAG, but derserving of some close attention is usefull. I just wanted to be sure that I was not misreading him, since I had a hard time coming out on top until I hit that top set.