Staking/getting staked, specific to PTP

BlibbityBlabbity · #1 11-09-08, 09:13 AM

I have seen some play railing good players that I did not agree with (specifically of the bubble as well), but I think the answer to this question is no in general. You are putting your money up for them to try to make you as much as possible (do as well as they possibly can). I think the majority of players would agree that this means playing for the FT/top spots and not the money.

I have also railed good TIGHT players that made plays that I didn't agree with on the bubble. This includes folding in an obvious push situation when they are short and NEED those blinds/antes to have a shot to go deep. They folded and barely made the money for a small win when they could have had an average stack and almost doubled with just those blinds/antes!

You are not going to agree with everything they do. You are trusting them to generally make the right plays in the right situations as much as you are trusting them not to go blow your money playing blackjack in between tournaments.

As far as them being obligated to reimburse backers for a bad play.... I don't think it could be required. Some do it on occasion ("I am not charging the BAP for that, I played like shit, etc, etc"), but it is a long run game, not a one play game and it is the backer's responsibility to choose the horse. You are free to not back them again. I think there are ways to even ask to be bought out on PTP if you are unhappy, right?

Penguinfan · #2 11-09-08, 09:21 AM

BB, thanks for the reply.

I guess I wasn't clear there. I don't think a horse should ever reimburse anyone for anything. You are right you are trusting them to do the right thing and once it's done, it's done.

My question was more around the thought he should have folded both of those hands and ensured he at least cashed when nobody in their right mind thinks they are ahead far enough to risk it with 44 and 77.

Perhaps I am just too nitty, but bubbling with other peoples money with 44 and 77 when you have a top 15 stack seems like bad management.

Thanks.

Talking Poker · #3 11-09-08, 01:52 PM

First, if you have a question about PTP horses, I would suggest starting a thread on PTP, and not here. I'm sure you would get much better responses.

Second, when you agree to back someone, you are giving them money to play agreed upon game(s). They are allowed to play however they want though, so long as they actually play what was agreed upon. I would hope you wouldn't back players that you think are bad players, but if you do for some reason, you need to live with that decision. You certainly have the right to question plays they make. Maybe post specific Hands in the Hand Discussion thread here, removing their name of course, and see what kinds of comments it gets and then point them to the results. That way, you are giving them an opportunity to improve their game.

My last piece of advice is that maybe you should back players who play with the nitty-go-for-the-mincash style that is more closely aligned with your own. I personally don't think that's a good strategy, but it sounds like you would be more comfortable with it than backing the guys who are going to both bust early and FT a higher percentage of the time than the mincash guys.

Penguinfan · #4 11-09-08, 02:39 PM

I see what you are saying, and agree. In the examples I gave I just thought getting some of the backers money would have been important and it's not like I was asking them to fold KK, I mean they called off fairly big stacks with 44 and 77 against TWO other players each time.

I know you and I agree as often as oil and water, but I don't think I would call folding 44 or 77 against two all-ins nitty.

I didn't post this at PTP because I figured they would just defend thier own reguardless. I was looking for more unbiased opinions from people who may be farmiliar with the site, but not regulars.

Talking Poker · #5 11-09-08, 03:15 PM

Well, I certainly don't think two bad plays represents and entire community, ya know?

Penguinfan · #6 11-09-08, 03:25 PM

No, but I feel better that you say the were in fact bad plays. Again, I have limited experience there and my biggest question was how players with horrible ROI's get backed for 6K plus.

I get the feeling you think I am just complaining when in reality I am just looking for others experience.

I'm willing to be wrong, doesn't mean I like it, but I am willing to learn believe it or not.

Oh, and what I said spoke poorly of the entire community is if people who roll can come back and sell out giant sized BAP's.

Wes · #7 11-09-08, 04:58 PM

People make bad plays all the time. It is those that later admit to their own mistakes to learn upon later that will achieve greater success in the future. Players that blindly put their own fortitude in the way of a greater understanding are players that I would not want to be staking.

PTP really just puts me on tilt, and I'm going to give it till the end of the year for my own particular issue to be resolved or I will talk about it openly.

herschelw · #8 11-09-08, 11:58 PM

Doesn't forgiveness speak highly of a community? I'm not saying they should easily be able to get backing again but second chances aren't all bad. When people come back they have to rebuild thier reputation before they can sell out huge BAP's. There are a few exceptions to that where the player is massively +EV, paid back quickly, and has good relationships with the top stakers.