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#1
03-16-05, 04:00 PM
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Wow, I just reread the original post. I missed the fact that it was the guy with 55 that raised preflop.
After that, it's hard to find much fault with his play. he calls the weak flop action getting 11:1 (implied odds plus the times he's ahead make this OK), then on the turn, nobody has given him cause to think he doesn't have the best hand. Besides, the guy who flopped the boat could have lost to 3 Q's on the river, too, but I agree it's a tough beat to take, and also tough to not slowplay the flopped boat. |
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#2
03-16-05, 06:04 PM
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Its very tough to bet out when every card that flopped hits your hand and you make a boat. In fact Id go as far as to say it's incorrect 99.9% of the time (the only time being if your opponent expects you to bet regardless and senses a trap by your check...and if you have that kind of respect at the table then you probably dont need my advice). The reason being is that chances are no one was helped, so if you fire right away you are most likely gunna pick up a small pot unless someone tries to steal raise you, where as if you check you are giving someone a chance to catch a card they will bet/call with, or giving them a chance to bet at the flop trying to pick it up. Especially with a flop like K,10,K and you hold K,10, there is no 1 card that can come on the turn that can beat you (unless an ace hit thes turn and someone is holding aces in the hole, which by the action shown is next to impossible), so its very difficult not to check and give an opponent a chance to try and steal on the flop, or catch a card on the turn. Furthermore in this case the made boat had someone betting into him from the beginning.
Very tough beat |
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#4
03-16-05, 06:14 PM
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I sent that before I wanted to....... the thing with hands like KJ or KQ or watever is that checking isnt giving them a free card to beat you, because regardless if you bet or check they are going to still be in the hand on the turn to catch their card. 99 times out of 100 , 3 kings with a queen kicker is not going to fold to a rainbow k,k,10, , so if they are going to catch a Q and make their full house its going to happen anyway, check or bet.
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#5
03-17-05, 09:40 AM
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Let me clarify. In my original reply, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't a bad beat. I misread the original post (one reason I hate posting raw hand histories) and thought the guy who flopped the boat was the one who limit-raised preflop. In that context, I thought he set himself up to be called by too many hands. Then the flop action is so wimpy that you really can't fault the guy with 55 for calling, and on the turn he has zero reason to not think his hand is good.
Once I realized that it was the 55 guy who minraised, my entire perception of the hand changed. |
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#6
03-17-05, 03:19 PM
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Yea I agree 100% about the limit raie in NL. Minimum raises in NL make no sense, if I've already limped in, or I am in the big blind, I will never fold to a minimum raise no matter what two cards I have, unless the blinds are ridiculously high. I think minimum raises are pointless because they encourage callers, (and even if you hold AA you do not want to encourage multiple callers....the only time this MAY make sense is with a strong drawing hand like J10s etc)...
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#8
03-18-05, 01:38 AM
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Not when 97% of the time you have the best hand and will have the best hand throughout....you are most likely picking up the pot when every single card helped you and more than likely didnt help your opponent. By not betting you now give him a chance to try and steal bet the flop, and a chance to catch a card thatll make him bet or call on the turn. If you opponent catches a card that will beat you, chances are even if you bet you would of only lost more money because they'll call your bet anyway
Furthermore if you always bet your strong hands, whenever you do check your opponents will know they can pick up the pot right there since you never trap and they will have no fear of being trapped |
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