what the fuck was this guy thinking?

[Talking Poker]

Feeling like that is fine, but at the end of the day/month/week, when your roll is bigger than when it started, I would think logic would kick in and you would realize that those bad players making their bad plays are where that money came from...

[Zybomb]

Being a NL player, I think I can explain this a little better than others have been trying to

YES I want you to call on a draw when you do not have odds...regardless if you hit or not, im looking long term. YES I want you to make incorrect decisions.

The PROBLEM is in limit games players often DO have proper odds to draw...not only to flush draws and straight draws, but, at times, to over cards, gutshots, backdoors with an over etc. The fact that it often becomes SHOWDOWN POKER takes a huge element out of the game.

You want to FORCE your opponents to make mistakes by chasing... in limit you can not control how much u bet, so generally you cant do that.

EVEN HEADS UP

Say I raise preflop, and only one person calls....we'll put the blinds at 5/10 to make things easy. I raise to 20 one person calls (I'll even put him in the small blind) and the BB folds (although getting 5:1 on his money, he probably shouldnt be eliminated anyway)... there is now 50 dollars in the pot. He flops a flush draw, I can only bet 10...he is getting 6:1, he has to call. On the turn he misses, there is now 70 dollars in the pot, I can only bet 20, he is now getting 4.5: to 1, ignoring implied odds (the check call on the river if the flush comes)

So at no point during the hand did I deny him proper odds, nor did I have the opportunity to

thus there was nothing i could do to get him off his flush... if this were a NL game, I could of gotten a read on him, PUT HIM on the flush draw draw, made him pay an expensive (incorrect) price on the flop, and once he missed the turn most likely gotten him to fold with another large bet... thus he'd never get to see the river

Not to mention the difference in strength of certain plays (continuation bets for example), and the representing hands element...

Maybe that sums up a little bet what some of the NL cash game players are trying to say?

[Talking Poker]

I understand what you are saying... but now look at the other side. MOST of the time, he's not going to make his flush and you are going to take down the pot - and you will have gotten 1.5 more big bets out of him along the way than if you had pushed in (extreme example) on the flop and he folded. You are basically risking 1.5 more bets yourself vs his 1.5 more bets (even money) and he's not getting even money odds on his draw.

I've never tried to explain this before, so I'm probably doign a crappy job, but do ou see what I'm getting at? And yes, I realize there is already preflop money in the pot and THAT is what you are trying to take down with your NL play, but I'm trying to give you another way to look at this.

Ok, how about this: How about when YOU are on the other side of this situation? Now you have the odds to draw to that same flush, right? So that particular situation is a wash. But *you* know not to draw to a gutshot, where a lot of your opponents do not. So that's where you gain an edge.

Make less mistakes than your opponents, and you'll make money in the long run.