WSOP - $2500 6 max...

Windbreaker · #1 07-03-06, 03:24 AM

He didn't beat 2000 people...he beat like a little over 800 players. There's no question that every poker has to have both luck/skill to win a tourney of this nature....but the way he got there and his record shows....he's not as skilled as most poker players out there.

He put the money in bad at least twice in the tourney. The 88 vs AA against Bernes where they both miss the flop and he called the all in only to catch his set on the turn. And the hand against Ivey where he made trip queens and top pair vs the full house of iveys, only to river the A for bigger full house.

He made a few amazing calls like the one against Dutch Boyd with 33 vs overcards.....but his record since the wsop win has shown he's now where the level as other pros. One of the shows that clearly shows this is the Poker Superstars II....he never had a chance to win anything...and was totally outplayed most of the time.

I don't know....I would put Varkonyi and Moneymaker in the same category as one year miracles.

Zybomb · #2 07-03-06, 03:28 AM

Did Varkonyi DEFINE the term lucky.... especially at the final table, my god

and he got a 'poker coach' for the next year... Ignoring how funny that is and what it says about his main event braclet....if this guy (the coach) was so good why wasnt he playing in the ME??

Funny shit

Penguinfan · #3 07-03-06, 08:35 AM

Rarely, if ever do Chip and I agree, this won't be any different. Moneymaker beat a MUCH shorter field than Raymer or Hachem, not 2000+, and he was the very definition of LUCKY to win that tournament.

Varknonyi simply got dealt cards that wouldn't let him lose. I'll never forget the call of the match, I think it was Gabe Kaplan (maybe not) who said "And Robert Varkonyi's hard luck continues" after Varkonyi looked down at AA for the third time in 10 hands, something like that. At least we all learned that Q 10 is the nuts.

I think Hellmuth still hates him, though Hellmuth hates everyone that isn't named Phil Hellmuth.

Talking Poker · #4 07-03-06, 12:08 PM

I think it was Norman Chad who made that comment, and just so you know, that was a fine example of SERIOUS tv editing. They showed the AA hands and SAID that they came back to back (on the first two hands of the tourney, no less), but the first hand wasn't the first hand, and the second one came HOURS later. I've spoken with Varkonyi about this, and he was pretty annoyed about how they edited that to make it look so much different than reality. And that was from the 2003 WSOP, btw - the year after he won.

PShabi · #5 07-03-06, 12:10 PM

Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.

melioris · #6 07-03-06, 12:15 PM

fixed

Penguinfan · #7 07-03-06, 12:26 PM

I can't play Raymers style simply because every time you bust out playing like that you know you didn't have to.

Could I have shoved all my chips in on a flush draw against Matusow and then go on to win the tournament? No. Matusow had him covered and if the flush card doesn't fall history is all together different.

Thats his game, and if I am ever deep in a big tourney the LAST person I want to see on my left with a big stack is Greg Raymer.

BrianSwa · #8 07-03-06, 04:31 PM

[quote=Windbreaker]. And the hand against Ivey where he made trip queens and top pair vs the full house of iveys, only to river the A for bigger full house.

QUOTE]

if your saying this was a mistake on his play then you are way way way off, I dont think his call or push or whatever on this hand was bad at all. I mean he has got trip queens only like 2 or 3 hands beat him right here and Ivey could of had anything including a high pair or Q with worse kicker.

I hear this over and over how lucky he got in this hand, but I dont know many people that would lay down in this same spot. I agree Chris isnt as good as Greg or Joe but hell he is decent. I have sat with Chris on stars one time playing 3/6 NL and he isnt terrible. Id put him in the average category, did he get lucky? hell yes. Did Greg and Joe get lucky? hell yes!

anyone that says it was all lucky is clueless, anyone that says he is terrible is clueless. It took alot to get through his sattie then win it and he did it, I dont care if it was 800 people or 2000 he still deservers the respect for winning the damn main event. He also made some great plays and im sure he got sucked out once or twice too. It happens, now his track record isnt too hot since then but oh well.